Hi Gav, As I said it was not a matter of not getting it, or not recognizing the history .... my questions were purely practical. And you answered those too.
You say "we will have no need of 'explicit society', if you like. no need for laws, prisons, any absolute restrictions of freedom. instead the harmony of nature will be enough, as it is for the rest of the planet." A utopian dream - can't argue with that as a dream, as a wish, a desire, a goal, an aim, mine too, seriously, there is "nothing funny 'bout peace, love and understanding", but ... you also said ... "destroying the giant - explicit controlling society - is a job for every individual. it is done not through violence (for that is the giant's tool) but through love, patience, kindness, awareness, steadfastness." So being practical about this ..... if you (gav) as an individual take on that lifestyle for yourself, what about all the other "individuals" ? If they don't follow your lead at the same time .... do you leave each individual (in the clutches of the current giant) to work it out for themselves ? Or do you "educate" them in any way ? What do you feel for your fellow man (individuals every one of them) ? If you (gav) find peace living that dream life, do you feel no moral responsibility for those (individuals) left behind, who haven't evolved ... yet .... or may never "get it", and thereby as individuals live and die more painfully than they might otherwise need to ? And, assuming some power-hungry egotist individuals, I'm alright Jack, decide they don't wanna follow you anyway - they as a group may continue to evolve in different directions - how will you deal with them encroaching on your own individual freedoms ? I don't want an "explicit" society any more than you do. My view is society is (would be) simply emergent from the cooperative "harmony" of the many individuals. I think you see your "live or die" view as strictly natural evolution .... a la Ishmael .... but I don't see any evidence that this commmune of a putative new world would survive evolution without having a plan to handle free-loaders and non-conformists ... other than "turning the other cheek". You say "no violence" but does your world have nothing worth "defending", nothing it needs to "organise" to support and maintain, to maximise your collective chances in nature, to minimise risks to your sustaining environment, etc ? Evolution works at the level of the multi-generational, reproducing species and interacting ecosystems, not just the individual. I think I said some years ago that the crux of what we all seem to want is the form of "governence" ... I still feel that. I think there is a lot of room for creativity in bringing quality values to such governance, but no governance - anarchy - just doesn't seem practical. Is it just me ? Regards Ian moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
