Oh, the gel chips off because I put it on too thin. Thanks, that helps. I still need more time to thin down the NSS acrylic and use a concealer pink gel and if I have to book an hour and a half I want to be paid for it.
So this moves into a new topic. How do you all structure your prices? Do you ever charge for extra time or always just for the service? A question for those who do charge extra for more work, How do you market your prices? I've heard of people charging based on how long it's been between services. Anyone want to chime in on that method? Last part of my question, how do you determine your prices? These subjects have been discussed in the past, I think it needs to be rehashed every now and again. Katherine Fahrig Nails at Panache Sent from my iPod On Nov 23, 2012, at 4:07 PM, "Laura Merzetti" <[email protected]> wrote: > Katherine I agree with you. The only way I’ve had any success with gel over > MMA is to really thin out the enhancement first – which as you know takes a > lot of time. I don’t even bother trying to soak it off anymore, waste of > time and acetone. Then I apply a liberal layer of gel over it. You can’t be > too thin (it chips off). The nails might end up a bit thicker than you would > normally do them, but in my experience they grow off and then you can just > keep rebalancing with gel. This method has worked successfully for me. > > Laura M. > > > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf > Of Katherine Fahrig > Sent: November-23-12 2:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: NailTech:: Re: What to say to clients who think that an NSS > salon nails are beautiful? > > I use Light Elegance gel. It just chips off cheep acrylic. Good brands like > CND, OPI, Entity, etc are not a problem as long as I use Protein Bond by > Young Nails between the acrylic and gel. That cheep NSS acrylic is nothing > like the name brands, it is ridiculous hard to file and ridiculous hard to > soak off and whatever (MMA?) is in it stops the gel from sticking to it. > Maybe if I just buffed the gel top coat, but didn't remove it, my gel would > stick, but, the nails are so thick and ugly shaped that I still don't want my > name on them if I can't reshape them, thin them out and properly balance the > apex. > > > Some acrylic companies have gel top coat that is specially formulated to > adhere to their acrylic, but it is just a top coat, it is not strong enough > to be used as a fill product and most of them do not have a tacky layer so > they cannot be used as a base or primer to make the UV gel adhere to the > acrylic. > > Please, if anyone has found a way to get their gel to stick to cheep acrylic, > share the trick. > > Katherine > Nails at Panache > St. Louis, MO > Sent from my iPad > > On Nov 23, 2012, at 12:17 PM, Jill in Ky <[email protected]> wrote: > > Your gel won't adhere over cheap acrylic? I'm not a gel tech, but am eager to > learn more about it, so can you explain to me the chemistry behind WHY it > won't adhere if you take the shine off the top of the old nail product? > > I'd really like to know because I thought you could use a camouflaging pink > gel to help hide the fill lines. If that's not the case, then maybe I need to > stick to acrylic where I can custom blend the powder to help hide other nail > techs fill lines. For all the gel techs out there, jump in to help instruct > me on this, ok? > > Jill W. > > On Thursday, November 22, 2012 5:57:24 PM UTC-6, Katherine Fahrig wrote: > I understand what you are saying and I agree in principal. However, in this > situation, that is not going to work. She wears a French Manicure, so the > yellow acrylic and fill lines show through my crystal clear gel product. > Additionally, my gel will not adhere to cheep NSS acrylic. So, the problem is > that the finished nails look horrible with the yellow ac and fill lines > showing AND they will not hold up. My gel will chip off the top of that NSS > ac in less than a week. I do not want my name on those nails. I do not want > her telling everyone that those yellow, fill lined and chipping nails are my > work. > > Back in the day, when I did acrylic nails, I had an opaque pink that I used > on clients who came to me with horrid yellow acrylic on their nails and I was > proud to have my name on my work because I could make the nails look good > despite the crappy product underneath. Even if I used an opaque pink gel, it > would still chip off the top of the NSS acrylic. The only thing I could do is > start doing acrylic nails again. Not going to happen for my own reasons, long > story that is a whole different thread. > > It's not an ego thing, it's a reputation thing. I will not put my name on > yellow, fill lined nails. That is not what my work looks like. I use top > quality products that do not yellow and correct (manufacturers) technique > that does not leave fill lines. I do not view a good work ethic as "ego". > > I get what you are saying, but, this situation is not about ego, it's about > my name on substandard work. I have other clients who get their nails done in > other states, one who gets her nails done in Vancouver, BC, I have no problem > doing their nails. No, the work is not as good as mine ( that part is ego ) > but they all use a quality gel and I can do my work with my gel over it and > with one appointment I can produce nails that deserve my name on them. I do > not bad mouth the other salon or manicurist, I like to hear about how things > are in the other city for my clients who live part time here and part time > there, it's a fun and exciting life that I can live vicariously through. It's > not about me having to convince anyone that I'm better than the other > manicurist. It doesn't matter, I do their nails when they are in STL and the > other manicurist does their nails when they are there. No competition, we are > actually working together, sharing the client. I'm cool with that. I'm not > cool with someone telling a client that they are getting gels when they are > getting acrylic and then the client expects me to make her yellow, fill lined > acrylic look like the clear, natural gel nails that I'm known for creating. > > I do not think that anyone should put their name on work that is beneath > them. Every single set of nails that walk out of my salon meet my standards > for quality, beauty and durability. That is customer service. That is a full > book of happy, satisfied clients. That is a reputation in this city that I am > the best. > > Belittling, berating or insulting a client, coworker, manicurist (licensed or > not) is not good customer service. Doing substandard work over a substandard > foundation in not good customer service. > > Katherine > Nails at Panache > St. Louis, MO > Sent from my iPad > > On Nov 22, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Jill in Ky <[email protected]> wrote: > > Katherine, I feel your pain & I hate when that happens! It is so frustrating, > but this is how I've learned to handle it after 25+ years in the business- it > all boils down to psychology: > > After I've tried to educate someone & they still aren't getting it, I stop > trying. For me, I can recognize the feeling of being defensive when it comes > on me & it serves no purpose. I have to reign in that emotion because > ultimately I do not want to alienate the client (no matter how stupid they > appear to be). My goal has to be focused on giving her the best possible > service in the time that she's booked. If that means filling over someone > else's crappy work, then I'll do my best to make it look right & create a > stable nail (ultimately it will be her new nail techs problem when her > acrylic starts to break down). Then I direct the conversation to something > else more pleasant, the hour goes fast, and then she pays me. It's not easy, > but I try to take my ego out of the equation. > > Think about it from the client's point of view......by YOU contradicting what > she's telling you & pointing out her new nail techs flaws, the client is > being made to feel like SHE made a poor choice in salons because she's > ignorant. No one want's to feel that way, including ourselves. So then the > client keeps talking about how beautiful & wonderful the new salon is & how > great their services are, because that's HER way of trying to convince YOU > that she DID make a good choice. She has a need for your approval, but she > doesn't realize that it hurts your feelings & puts you on the defensive, so > both of you get nowhere. It's frustrating on both sides because both peoples > egos are involved. > > Obviously, the other salon is exciting to her because it's new. She was > probably excited about your salon back when she became a new client, too. The > new tech probably strokes her ego in ways that you don't anymore, because we > all get familiar with long time clients & thus, the honeymoon phase goes out > the window. It's only natural that it will eventually happen with this new > salon, too. Then when you eventually see her she'll start to complain about > them. > > I wouldn't turn her away or insist that she soak off for a new full set, but > that's just me. I wouldn't want her to leave my salon with hard feelings > because SHE won't understand why after all these years YOU are giving her the > boot, plus she will tell everyone in town about how she was so rudely > dismissed as a long time client by you. And what if she doesn't have the > money in the budget to pay your prices for a full set? She'll be forced by > YOU to take her business elsewhere then. We're in business to make money & > HERS would be gone. What purpose would that serve? > > If she were my client, I'd mentally prepare myself for when she comes in > (keeping my body language relaxed- not on the defensive) bragging about her > new salon & then I'd just let her talk it out of her system. I'd keep my head > down, fixing those crappy nails so they look good, & occasionally at the > right points in the conversation, I'd interject the little words that will > mean so much to her.... "uh-huh" & "is that right?" & "no way!" & "you go, > girl!". I'd be taking my ego out of the conversation & using psychology to > make the client feel validated. Eventually, she'll run out of steam & you can > direct the conversation to other things that are important to HER. Aaaahhh, > the honeymoon phase is returning! > > It's a challenge in acting & psychology, but for me it's also satisfying when > it works because everyone leaves happy. One great thing about being in the > South is that you learn how to sugar coat phrases which have underlying > meanings. The best one to remember is "Well, bless your heart!", which sounds > very nice on the surface, & you can interject it into your next conversation > with her when she says what a great nail job her new tech did. But what you > really mean by that phrase is "Well, you are dumb as a rock"! > > Jill Wright > Event Coordinator & Nail Tech > www.nailtechevent.com > > > > > On Tuesday, November 6, 2012 1:55:18 PM UTC-6, Katherine Fahrig wrote: > Hey Techies, > > I have a client who used to be a regular gel client until she moved to > Florida last year. She now comes to me 3 or 4 times a year. It wasn't a > problem until this visit. She showed up with NSS, substandard, horrible > acrylic nails that are yellowing and have fill lines. She went on and on > about how she found a new salon that is so beautiful and the guy she goes to > is so up to date on all the latest things and does such beautiful work. I'm > looking at horrible, yellow, fill lines and acrylic ( she was told that it > was the new powder gel that they were using ) and I want to scream! I pointed > out the yellowing and the fill lines, she acknowledged them and then said > something about "taking it all off" for her fill. I told her that she would > have to soak them off for about an hour and then I would do a full set, for > the price of a full set. She said that they just pulled them off, no hour > wasted soaking them off. I had to keep my head down so she could not see the > horror on my face. > > What do you say to someone when presented with this kind of mess? I did not > have the time to soak them off and do a full set, so, I did not push her to > do so. I told her that it was acrylic on her nails and she said that it was > powder gel, didn't I know about it? I explained that it was not powder gel it > was acrylic and she still insisted that they said it was gel so it is gel. I > stopped short of telling her that they are lying rat finks because she went > on and on about how much she liked the salon and the "guy" who does her nails > and the conversation was quickly turning into an argument with my client > defending her "guy's" flat out lies! > > I'm still trying to get my hormones in balance so I could use some advice as > to what to say and what not to say. In general I do not bad mouth anyone > else's work, but, what do I do when someone is lying their but off and the > client believes them over me? I have certificates on the wall that prove my > advanced education and she's heard me go on and on about all the conventions, > continuing education, this mailing list, industry web sites and trade > publications that I've gotten all my information from for 25 years and she > still believes that lying sack of *~#t!!!!! Sorry, I fell into name > calling.....not sorry he is a lying sack of _____. > > She was a good client for about a year before she moved to FL, I educated her > while she was in my chair and now she seems to have forgotten all of it. On > her way out she saw my old ProFinish two hand uv lamp and exclaimed, "that's > what they have, the new two hand lamp! What do you use it for?" I told her > that that lamp is a least 15 years old and useless except to get regular > polish clients to sit still for 4 minutes. She looked confused, but, said > nothing more. > > I thought about booking 2 hours for her next appointment and soaking the ac > off and putting on a new set of gels so she would be reminded of how they > should look, but, if I'm doing all that work, I'm getting paid for a full set > and she would not agree to that. Besides, she saw my nails and the clients > before and after her with beautiful, clear, non yellow, no fill lines, gel > nails. Maybe she listened and noticed more than she admitted to and she will > find a new salon in FL that actually does gels, not acrylic (that turns > yellow) with a gel overlay. > > So, Techies, I did a little venting, now, what do you all say to clients who > come in with NSS nails and tell you how beautiful that are? > > Katherine > Nails at Panache > St. Louis, MO > Sent from my iPad > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NailTech" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/nailtech/-/GMGy0U4sa_EJ. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nailtech?hl=en. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NailTech" group. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msg/nailtech/-/3erg2-Nbwz8J. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nailtech?hl=en. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NailTech" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nailtech?hl=en. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "NailTech" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nailtech?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NailTech" group. 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