Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes. So yes, there’s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines. I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop. But there is so much good music and art. I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral questions, relevances then good on you. I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak myself. Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it. The carbuncle of the chattering classes. What’s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of course it reflects back into people’s values etc. Corporate pop has been around a few decades no? Techno and beats. Beats forever. Forever beatific eh Alan. Alan on the path looked up at me Me on the fence Singing him a song Alan agreed with me About animal exploitation In the Prometheus show In the toilet on the park In London We were together With the bacteria teeth And the little statuettes Of bodies clinging I singed at Alan Then we talked a bit He went to America again I never saw him since But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz And we discussed improv He done it twenty years longer than me Cos he is about 18 years my senior And writes a lot Creative and disjointed Knows my landlord Aharon Who skates and records the rumble
Sent from my spyphone > On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots else should be > ‘what wealth of human practices would a decently ordered and resourced world > for everyone allow?’ Often we seem to critique the products of a distorted > world rather than the distortion itself, carts before horses... > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the specifics and the later > reference to rap.. but... still my point stands... we lose something if we > abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the fragility of the live but > wholesale dismissal of new musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and > experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to me the order of the day :) > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote: > > Grimes - > > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene > > I’m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons. > > - Rob. > >> On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> Do you mean Grime Simon? I’m unclear. I think there is a big difference >> between a healthy scepticism and nuanced discussion about how tech can on >> occasion be ill used and the dismissal of whole swathes of work... >> >> >> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Have to weigh in in this! Grimes. Sorry. Yes — Grimes. Utterly soulless >> product without anything of cultural value to me, musical or otherwise. This >> discussion between these three entities makes me yawn. >> It’s all about money - absolutely nothing else - it’s the equivalent of >> Smash powdered potatoes - worse than that. >> These people are completely without musical talent - the so-name AI is less >> than the dirt under the nails of the Ed Blackwell. >> Technology is only about generating revenue. It does not help musicians - >> rap is a festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie. An undeniable itch - >> when scratched and cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth for a tiny >> few participants. >> Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I dig you cats for keeping the >> stuff rumbling along the conveyor / keep it up and — where’s my Jazzmaster >> and homemade inks.... >> >> Sent from my spyphone >> >>> On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via NetBehaviour >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> It's definitely a discussion we need to have. It reminds me of a dinner I >>> had years ago w/ Cage who confirmed he criticized jazz because the player >>> worked with fixed rhythms. Something gets lost in these discussions; Adorno >>> fails miserably. >>> Ah well... It relates to my writing about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I >>> always feel I have to justify myself (although the audience doesn't feel >>> it) when I show up playing an acoustic guitar for example. -- Alan >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote: >>> On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m., Alan Sondheim wrote: >>> >> This sounds so white/privileged to me, the position >>> > of the listener paramount for example, the relegation of community to >>> > reproduction, etc. It's a form of hip effacement. I realize I haven't >>> > read everything HH's has written, but there's a fundamental difference >>> > between a drum machine and a "great drummer" who came from community, >>> > breathes within community, and contributes to community. Thinking for >>> > example of free jazz, and the difficulties and explorations of the great >>> > players, the relation of that music to the cry, the field holler, the >>> > blues, gospel musics, etc. >>> >>> I think HH would agree with you. >>> >>> > and I keep returning to white white white white white and privilege. >>> There is something class-bound about Grimes (currently dating a >>> billionaire) and HH (whose last album was their PhD thesis) arguing >>> about who the future will be worse for. But I suspect that our own >>> reactions can be similarly reduced to our respective identities. >>> >>> There's obviously a bigger historical discussion about race, technology, >>> intellectual property and music that AI and "AI" are just the latest >>> phase of. Drum machines being prominent in rap and techno and disdain >>> for them as tools may be related, for example. Given this, I'm genuinely >>> surprised that AI has been instantly mainstreamed in music in the way >>> that it seems to have. More like the Fairlight than the 808... >>> >>> - Rob. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ===================================================== >>> directory http://www.alansondheim.org tel 718-813-3285 >>> email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut gmail.com >>> ===================================================== >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetBehaviour mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
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