Beautiful -
Then again, in the discussion, for me it's got to do with steering
mechanisms and a kind of Wired magazine collocation of technological
epiphanies. There's more than that, there's room for everything; it's when
one or another form dominates, the problems start up. But it's all only
music, sound, yes?
On Thu, 5 Dec 2019, Simon Mclennan via NetBehaviour wrote:
Indeed Michael all things are a product of this world. And as such are
inevitable. Hierarchies therein generate processes and inevitable outcomes.
So yes, there?s great swathes of stuff to sort through. Made via machines.
I find that type of ultra commercial music dull to listen to - people can do
cultural studies sure, of these forms. Look good in the old ica bookshop.
But there is so much good music and art.
I guess if one can shine a light on political or philosophical or moral
questions, relevances then good on you.
I prefer to actually make music and art. Not talk about bad pop Muzak
myself.
Ha ha guess I always put my foot in it.
The carbuncle of the chattering classes.
What?s different about Grimes then? AI in music is it changing people?- of
course it reflects back into people?s values etc.
Corporate pop has been around a few decades no?
Techno and beats. Beats forever.
Forever beatific eh Alan.
Alan on the path looked up at me
Me on the fence
Singing him a song
Alan agreed with me
About animal exploitation
In the Prometheus show
In the toilet on the park
In London
We were together
With the bacteria teeth
And the little statuettes
Of bodies clinging
I singed at Alan
Then we talked a bit
He went to America again
I never saw him since
But seen his jangling and fast runs on the saz
And we discussed improv
He done it twenty years longer than me
Cos he is about 18 years my senior
And writes a lot
Creative and disjointed
Knows my landlord Aharon
Who skates and records the rumble
Sent from my spyphone
On 4 Dec 2019, at 23:48, Michael Szpakowski <m...@michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
Maybe the question for music as it is for the network and lots
else should be ?what wealth of human practices would a decently
ordered and resourced world for everyone allow?? Often we seem to
critique the products of a distorted world rather than the
distortion itself, carts before horses...
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 11:42 pm, Michael Szpakowski
<m...@michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
Ah ha! Misled by my relative ignorance of the
specifics and the later reference to rap.. but...
still my point stands... we lose something if we
abandon wholesale physically actuated sound and the
fragility of the live but wholesale dismissal of new
musical practices is foolish, blunts our lives and
experiences... fiercely critical openness seems to
me the order of the day :)
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 9:45 pm, Rob Myers
<r...@robmyers.org> wrote:
Grimes -
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Anthropocene
I?m a big fan of all three but for very different reasons.
- Rob.
On Wed, Dec 4, 2019 at 1:13 PM, Michael Szpakowski
<m...@michaelszpakowski.org> wrote:
Do you mean Grime Simon? I?m unclear. I think
there is a big difference between a healthy
scepticism and nuanced discussion about how
tech can on occasion be ill used and the
dismissal of whole swathes of work...
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
On Wednesday, December 4, 2019, 6:36 pm, Simon
Mclennan via NetBehaviour
<netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
Have to weigh in in this! Grimes.
Sorry. Yes ? Grimes. Utterly
soulless product without anything
of cultural value to me, musical
or otherwise. This discussion
between these three entities makes
me yawn. It?s all about money -
absolutely nothing else - it?s the
equivalent of Smash powdered
potatoes - worse than that.
These people are completely without musical
talent - the so-name AI is less than the dirt
under the nails of the Ed Blackwell.
Technology is only about generating revenue.
It does not help musicians - rap is a
festering sore on the ass of the bourgeoisie.
An undeniable itch - when scratched and
cauterised momentarily it oozes some wealth
for a tiny few participants.
Sorry I rarely contribute to this list - and I
dig you cats for keeping the stuff rumbling
along the conveyor / keep it up and ? where?s my
Jazzmaster and homemade inks....
Sent from my spyphone
On 28 Nov 2019, at 18:11, Alan Sondheim via
NetBehaviour
<netbehaviour@lists.netbehaviour.org> wrote:
It's definitely a discussion we
need to have. It reminds me of a
dinner I had years ago w/ Cage who
confirmed he criticized jazz
because the player worked with
fixed rhythms. Something gets lost
in these discussions; Adorno fails
miserably.
Ah well... It relates to my writing
about 'somatic ghosting' I think. And I
always feel I have to justify myself
(although the audience doesn't feel it)
when I show up playing an acoustic
guitar for example. -- Alan
On Thu, Nov 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Rob
Myers <r...@robmyers.org> wrote:
On 2019-11-27 7:40 p.m.,
Alan Sondheim wrote:
>> This sounds so
white/privileged to me, the
position
> of the listener paramount
for example, the relegation
of community to
> reproduction, etc. It's a
form of hip effacement. I
realize I haven't
> read everything HH's has
written, but there's a
fundamental difference
> between a drum machine and
a "great drummer" who came
from community,
> breathes within community,
and contributes to
community. Thinking for
> example of free jazz, and
the difficulties and
explorations of the great
> players, the relation of
that music to the cry, the
field holler, the
> blues, gospel musics, etc.
I think HH would agree with
you.
> and I keep returning to
white white white white
white and privilege.
There is something
class-bound about Grimes
(currently dating a
billionaire) and HH (whose
last album was their PhD
thesis) arguing
about who the future will be
worse for. But I suspect
that our own
reactions can be similarly
reduced to our respective
identities.
There's obviously a bigger
historical discussion about
race, technology,
intellectual property and
music that AI and "AI" are
just the latest
phase of. Drum machines
being prominent in rap and
techno and disdain
for them as tools may be
related, for example. Given
this, I'm genuinely
surprised that AI has been
instantly mainstreamed in
music in the way
that it seems to have. More
like the Fairlight than the
808...
- Rob.
--
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tel 718-813-3285
email sondheim ut panix.com, sondheim ut
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