But my point is exactly the same as you, the wars and the violence against civilians IS the same, 70000 ppl were killed in Jerusalem in two days by the Christian army 1099.. They were not only Muslims, they were Jews and Christians are well, Copts and Maronites. Saladin, who recovered the city for the Arabs 300 years later, was more merciful and all Christians and their churches were kept intact. Later on we had genocides and massacres to all indigenous ppl in America, both North and South. Spain burned alive Jews, Arabs and Protestants, the Inquisition was ruthless. And all those tens of millions Black Africans shipped as slaves to the US and Europe, sold as animals, killed as vermin. And Turkey wiping out the Armenian, genocide as well. And after the Holocaust where not only Jews but gypsies homosexuals and mental ill come other Holocausts, 30000 in Argentina and Uruguay, 1000000 in Guatemala and Salvador, later the Rwanda holocaust and the Bosnian holocaust...and so many holocausts we see and how many more we will see. Between my work 2005 and yours 2011 its not any difference, we see the harvest now of the grapes of wrath which were planted then. Ana
On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 11:33 PM, Alan Sondheim <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This is extremely interesting; I should also mention the work I did with > Sandy Baldwin on pain and death for Eyebeam, which is still up, I think, at > the blog http://eyebeam.org/blogs/alansondheim/ - Eyebeam's moved and the > site is a mess, but there's still information. This was a few years ago. > > My work now isn't about the image or representation, but is trying to go > somewhere else; otherwise I repeat myself, or repeat politics, repeat > repeat repeat myself, as if this is a form of healing or cauterization. So > I'm working for better or worse, quite possibly the later which seems my > forte, with poesis/poetics and that's what's going on in the current > pieces. I've written something short on this which I'll put up. > > Beyond this, my work was around 2011, yours 2005 I think? And now we are > in a different space, wars and violence against civilizians EVERYWHERE, and > what is our response? > > And those not participating in the discussion, why not? I keep reading my > email, Fb, etc. and there's a huge divide - Wired-mag style technology news > saving the world - and the very real savagry destroying large portions of > it. > > Thank you for the discussion and references, > > > Alan > > > On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, Ana Vald?s wrote: > > For many years ago I participated in a show with many writers, acitvists >> and >> artists, the topic was Images of War in Contemporary world, >> http://jordancrandall.com/main/+UNDERFIRE/underfire.html >> Two small books collected our discussions, Under Fire one and two, >> http://www.amazon.com/Jordan-Crandall-Under-Fire-Part/dp/907336261X >> >> >> It was the French curator Catherine David, the first appointed female >> curator at Documenta., who was the chef for Witte de Witt Art Centre in >> Rotterdam, Holland, who was behind the show and many others dealing with >> the >> images of the Arabs in the Contemporary World. >> She was one of the first Western curators in the world of visual arts >> trying >> to understand how the image of the Arabs was coloured with many prejudges >> and ignorance. >> >> Her work with these issues can still be viewed here, >> http://www.fundaciotapies.org/site/spip.php?article4543 >> >> The last station of her ongoing touring exhibitions was about Iraq and she >> invited to Berlin, to Barcelona and to Sweden some of the most interesting >> artists and writers from the Iraqui diaspora, >> http://www.fundaciotapies.org/site/spip.php?article4543 >> >> I curated the Swedish part, connecting it with my own project, Crusading, >> http://ceciliaparsberg.se/crusading/about.htm >> >> Ana >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 9:13 PM, Alan Sondheim <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> I'd love to see work, here, or a show, or something, a >> conversation, around these things. At one point a few weeks ago, >> I saw an American newscaster preparing for the news, he was >> holding back tears, looking shell-shocked - >> >> >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, Ana Vald?s wrote: >> >> by the way, written f?r a Lybian poet, friend of a friend, >> some hours ago: >> >> " >> >> Tripoli on fire. I have fled my house after attacks by >> rockets. It was >> looted & occupied by militias. Things are going for more >> chaos." >> >> >> Now when Gaza is relative calm Tripoli burns... >> >> Ana >> >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 7:20 PM, Alan Sondheim >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> I want to thank everyone as well, working in these >> areas isn't, >> for me, like doing art in a way, but trying to >> disentangle >> anguish. I have no idea how to go anywhere with >> this, >> politically; I feel hopeless, and the U.S. is a >> convoluted mess >> of ideologies - not even competing, but isolated >> from >> each other. Argh! (not the right expletive, but I'm >> not sure >> what would be!) >> >> Thank you again, Alan >> >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, dave miller wrote: >> >> Well done Alan for tackling these subjects. I >> agree >> artists should not be >> silent (and that includes me, but am >> struggling to >> get my creative act >> together at present). But you are an >> inspiration to >> me - please keep up the >> great work! >> Ana - I had contact with Opus Dei many years >> ago. I >> was a student at >> manchester University and desperately needed >> somewhere to live. All the >> student flats and halls had been filled by the >> time >> I started looking and >> the only accommodation the Uni had available >> was a >> hall of residence run by >> the Opus Dei. As a naive 19 year old I was >> interviewed by a very stern >> spanish man in a brown cloak, dressed like a >> monk, >> who said I could live >> there but I would have to go to mass at 6am >> every >> morning. I was brought up >> as a catholic so it wasn't too alien to me, >> and I >> was unsure at that stage >> of my life if I believed or not, but I turned >> them >> down as i remember having >> very strange feelings about the whole setup, >> plus >> the mass idea was a >> nightmare. Also I knew I couldn't survive in a >> place >> like that, it felt like >> a monastery. But there were people there I >> recognised from my course, and I >> remember their reaction to me was strange like >> I'd >> seen them as they really >> were. >> I've heard a lot of horror stories about Opus >> Dei >> since and can't believe I >> stupidly found myself in that situation. >> >> Your account about being tortured is >> fascinating - >> heart breaking - >> terrifying and very thought provoking. Thanks >> for >> sharing something so >> personal. >> >> cheers dave >> >> >> >> >> On 27 August 2014 18:57, Alan Sondheim >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I will read it and I know all of this >> and I >> was also shot at in >> Israel years ago and I am horrified by >> Israel. >> I do think ISIS >> is the result of something else but it >> is the >> logic of the war >> machine, the Israeli war machine ours, >> the >> streets of Ferguson - >> which could be anywhere in the U.S. What >> I'm >> arguing is that >> this something else cannot be explained, >> that >> poetics are >> necessary - and why are artists so >> silent on >> this? >> This is NOT US against THEM - this is US >> against ourselves. >> >> I also feel, having been a somewhat >> minor >> member of the left all >> thru the 60s in the US etc. etc. that we >> too >> easily blame >> ourselves for EVERYTHING - we are part >> of the >> problem, but so is >> ISIS. The "also" is important below - >> they are >> more than these >> children. I've known a lot of children >> of >> concentration camp >> parents and their reactions are wildly >> varied >> (including in >> several cases moving to Germany); none >> of this >> is simple cause >> and affect. >> >> I was also btw in Israel when Nassir was >> calling for the Jews to >> be drowned in the sea, when my friends >> were >> being shot at, when >> I had a knife pulled on me in my own >> dorm >> room, when an Arab who >> was my friend was beaten to an inch of >> his >> life and dropped in a >> gully (beaten by other Arabs). Violence >> breeds >> violence. I'm not >> trying to analyze the politics of ISIS - >> I >> read about them but >> I'm not capable of political science - >> but I >> am trying to deal >> with the poetics/poesis of what's inside >> each >> of us. >> >> Alan >> >> On Wed, 27 Aug 2014, Ana Vald?s wrote: >> >> Alan, read it, please, ISIS is also the >> children of the >> terrible war againt Irak, a war based on >> false >> information >> and cheap oil. ISIS is the children of >> the >> drones hitting >> villagers weddings in Pakistan. No, we >> don't >> see the >> drones but the victims see us, all, >> Westerner, >> as the ones >> sending the drones. >> >> >> >> www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/25/how-brutalized-become-brutal >> >> I was in Gaza some years ago, the same >> week >> Rachel Corrie >> was killed, >> crushed by a bulldozzer send to crush >> the >> houses at the >> border. >> Many small kids ran to the morgue to see >> her >> dead body, I >> wonder how many of >> them are in the ranks of Hamas today. >> >> I was myselt tortured for many years >> ago, I >> was tortured >> by fellow landsmen >> who believed they needed punish me for >> not >> sharing their >> ideas about many >> things >> >> >> >> http://www.counterpunch.org/2006/03/28/torture-works/ >> >> I marched with the women survivors of >> Srebrenica in the >> ex-Yugoslavia some >> years ago as well, they want still >> justice for >> their dead >> relatives >> >> We live in a time where Ferguson, Gaza, >> Montevideo, >> Srebrenica, carry >> painful memories to share. >> >> Ana >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 27, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Alan >> Sondheim >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> ISIS NEWFLAG >> >> >> http://www.alansondheim.org/isisflag.png >> >> http://www.alansondheim.org/isisflag.mp4 >> >> A new flag for ISIS. A cross >> turned, >> kindly bent to >> let >> the bodies down, perhaps an arm >> remains, >> propping >> the >> rest of the weight. the wounded. >> Perhaps >> an X, sign >> of >> belonging, gratitude to the >> beautiful >> clean world. >> There >> are no animals here. Perhaps an X >> which >> itself moves >> in >> violence, the focus of someone >> else's >> dream: it was >> the >> land and its god which did the >> dreaming. >> Perhaps an >> occlusion of solar light, a >> moment's >> cooling. But a >> new >> flag, new allure, new days and new >> bodies. >> >> The allure of the X as well, a new >> flat >> for the >> taking, >> copyright patent NEWFLAG, new >> bodies, >> worlds to >> conquer. >> New: forms of torture, ransom, >> violence, >> pillage. >> New: nations, cleansings, war >> machines, >> prisons. >> New: religions new-day dawning, >> new >> controls. >> New: cleansed women, children. >> New: >> thanks be to >> God. >> Thanks be to God. HE almighty. >> Thanks be >> to God. >> >> Perhaps an X, carved, above or >> through >> the eyes. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> http://www.twitter.com/caravia15860606060 >> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ >> >> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia >> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 >> >> >> >> cell Sweden +4670-3213370 >> cell Uruguay +598-99470758 >> >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you >> will >> forever walk >> the earth with your >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have >> been >> and there you >> will always long >> to return. >> ? Leonardo da Vinci >> >> >> >> == >> email archive >> http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell >> 718-813-3285 >> music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >> current text >> http://www.alansondheim.org/st.txt >> == >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> >> >> == >> email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 >> music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/st.txt >> == >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.twitter.com/caravia15860606060 >> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ >> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia >> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 >> >> >> >> cell Sweden +4670-3213370 >> cell Uruguay +598-99470758 >> >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk >> the earth with your >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you >> will always long >> to return. >> ? Leonardo da Vinci >> >> >> >> == >> email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ >> web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 >> music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ >> current text http://www.alansondheim.org/st.txt >> == >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetBehaviour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour >> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.twitter.com/caravia15860606060 >> http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ >> http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia >> http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 >> >> >> >> cell Sweden +4670-3213370 >> cell Uruguay +598-99470758 >> >> >> "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with >> your >> eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always >> long >> to return. >> ? Leonardo da Vinci >> >> >> > == > email archive http://sondheim.rupamsunyata.org/ > web http://www.alansondheim.org / cell 718-813-3285 > music: http://www.espdisk.com/alansondheim/ > current text http://www.alansondheim.org/st.txt > == > > _______________________________________________ > NetBehaviour mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour > -- http://www.twitter.com/caravia15860606060 http://www.scoop.it/t/art-and-activism/ http://www.scoop.it/t/food-history-and-trivia http://www.scoop.it/t/urbanism-3-0 <http://www.scoop.it/t/postcolonial-mind/> cell Sweden +4670-3213370 cell Uruguay +598-99470758 "When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you will always long to return. — Leonardo da Vinci
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