Well put, but you also have to take into account the reduced "fuel" cost and fairly simple maintanice.
Li ion battries are a much better option, but you can start with wet cells and upgrade to better cells as you can afford them ---Original Message--- From: [email protected] Sent: 2/17/2012 3:18 pm To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Nighthawk Lovers] Hybrid Bikes (side tangent) Well, $6k is msrp on most of the ~400cc dual sports I've found. Seems comparable. That said, electric and hybrid vehicles aren't universally applicable. If I had $7.5k to spend right now, I'd buy a Brammo bike. It's perfect for my needs, and would free me up to buy a dedicated touring bike. Kurt On Feb 17, 2012 12:55 PM, "Allen Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote: > Correction, the second website that Paul listed has 100A/h batteries for > $135 each so that lowers the battery cost down to $4000. IMHO $6000 for an > ev motorcycle that only has the performance of roughly a 300CC IC bike is a > bit much to spend. > > On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 12:31 PM, Allen Thomas <[email protected]>wrote: > >> the cost associated with batteries to provide 100 Amp hours at 96V would >> be tremendous. Quick check on google it would take 30 of these >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Electric-Vehicle-Battery-CALB-LiFePO4-100Ah-EV-Batteries-4-pack-/170765730402#vi-content >> connected >> in serial for a total cost of $17,550, Plus hub motor, controller, charger, >> and cabling. You are looking at the price of a prius, just to ride a >> motorcycle on the highway for an hour. It wouldn't get me to work and back. >> >> >> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 11:27 AM, paul annen <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> kurt, i think this is more of what you are looking at? >>> http://www.electricmotordepot.com/products/EnerTrac-Hub-Motor-MHM602.html >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM, paul annen <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> gerrr it helps if i paste the link >>>> http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-Your-Own-ELECTRIC-MOTORCYCLE/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:27 AM, paul annen <[email protected]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> ironically this was in the next email i opened this morning. i havent >>>>> read it yet, but i thought i would post >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Feb 17, 2012 at 9:25 AM, paul annen <[email protected]>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> very true, and i also imagined that the reserve battery would also >>>>>> function as the starting battery. with a 24v or higher system, i would >>>>>> recomend replacing the starter with one made for the higher voltages. >>>>>> >>>>>> it might make the bike feel totally different, but what about putting >>>>>> your hub motor in the front wheel? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:49 PM, Kurt Nolte < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I was actually imagining it going the other way, not sure why I >>>>>>> didn't make that clearer. I envision the motor pack also being the >>>>>>> starting >>>>>>> battery, as well as the reserve battery. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One or two 12V cells would be devoted as the "stock" battery, and >>>>>>> with a little coding one could even let the pack controller use the 12V >>>>>>> alternator to recondition cells as life goes on. Any retrofit package >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> this would likely include a rewound alternator, however. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I realize not all bikes have a rear drum hub, but then not all bikes >>>>>>> have a chain drive either so that wouldn't be universal either. My >>>>>>> target >>>>>>> market is still largely drum rears, and it would be easy to swap a drum >>>>>>> rear wheel on those with only disc brakes back there; there are many >>>>>>> options, factory and aftermarket. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kurt. >>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2012 12:35 PM, "paul annen" <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> you are correct that higher volts will require less amps to do the >>>>>>>> same work (watts is watts is watts), and i do like the retrofit >>>>>>>> option, you >>>>>>>> could also fairly easily use that rear break to do >>>>>>>> some regenerative functions as well. but not all bikes have the option >>>>>>>> of a >>>>>>>> rear wheel hub design, you might be better off driving off the existing >>>>>>>> chain. this way you could also incorporate it as a chain tensioner. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> are you imagining using the bikes charging system? we all know that >>>>>>>> these are weak links in the vintage hondas (another side note was a >>>>>>>> thought >>>>>>>> to have a small 30amp automotive alt mounted on the swing arm with a >>>>>>>> sprocket to bypass the rectifier, spring pull the tension on the alt >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> you have an automatic chain tensioner) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 12:25 PM, Kurt Nolte < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Sounds like a good idea for a Range Extended Battery Electric, >>>>>>>>> which I feel is probably where the auto industry is going to head, for >>>>>>>>> better or worse. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I like the modular idea, especially the ability to add/subtract >>>>>>>>> and hot-swap battery packs. One of my primary ideas would actually be >>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>> devise a "retrofit" package to hybridize most bikes with minimally >>>>>>>>> invasive >>>>>>>>> common parts. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The core concept its the use of a "hub" or "internal stator" motor >>>>>>>>> design, pressed into place of the rear drum brake. This allows for a >>>>>>>>> direct >>>>>>>>> drive DC design, high torque and the ability to run electric-only for >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> time. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Rear braking would now be electric, using a variable resistor to >>>>>>>>> determine braking load, tied to the stock brake pedal. The motor >>>>>>>>> controller's speed sensor would allow for ABS functionality without >>>>>>>>> additional parts, as a bonus, and the whole motor assembly shouldn't >>>>>>>>> add >>>>>>>>> more than a pound or two, tops. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Using this, I'd also downsize the engine, generally by a 1/3 but >>>>>>>>> obviously dependant on the individual bike. The motor torque added in >>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> bottom end of the range would allow riders to feel like the engine >>>>>>>>> its much >>>>>>>>> bigger. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think that both motor and pack should operate at high voltage, >>>>>>>>> preferably 36-72+V. This will allow for smaller, more flexible wires >>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>> also provide a beneficial bump in torque. The pack can still be be >>>>>>>>> charged >>>>>>>>> by a 12V alternator using the right connections and isolator >>>>>>>>> circuits. High >>>>>>>>> voltage packs are also better for the controllers, limiting max >>>>>>>>> current >>>>>>>>> flow. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That's it from me for now, when I'm on a proper keyboard I'll add >>>>>>>>> more. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Kurt >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Feb 16, 2012 10:42 AM, "paul annen" <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > well, my idea was to use as many stock Honda parts as i could, >>>>>>>>> so that i could market it to honda after. i also want to use a 24v >>>>>>>>> system. >>>>>>>>> this is to make the charging system easy. motor controller and basic >>>>>>>>> battery set on the chassis with modular extra batteries in saddle >>>>>>>>> bags and >>>>>>>>> a "trunk" with the engine and mobile charger (also modular). my >>>>>>>>> engine/mobile charger is about as simple as it gets, small engine (can >>>>>>>>> offer diffrent engine sets for gas, diesel, LP.... ) set at a >>>>>>>>> constant rpm >>>>>>>>> coupled to a 24v automotive alt (yes they make them, mostly for bigger >>>>>>>>> trucks). >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > the modular thought is that if your daily commute is short >>>>>>>>> enough you dont need the extra weight (and wear) from the engine >>>>>>>>> and batteries, simply plug it in to charge, but longer commutes the >>>>>>>>> extra batteries might be needed, for longer trips you will want to >>>>>>>>> have the >>>>>>>>> engine for "on the road" charging. yes, while cruising you will >>>>>>>>> probably >>>>>>>>> use more power then the alt can keep up with, but if you stop every so >>>>>>>>> often (and leave the charging engine running) you can build charge >>>>>>>>> back up. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > my first concept was using standard car batteries, (i was 12, >>>>>>>>> cut me some slack) now i am thinking that li ion makes a much better >>>>>>>>> choice, but thats also where the modular design comes in, as battery >>>>>>>>> tech >>>>>>>>> improves, you can upgrade without scrapping the whole bike. >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > not that ive spent any time thinking about this at all.. >>>>>>>>> comments and suggestions are welcome.. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> [email protected]. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. >>> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nighthawk Motorcycle Lovers!" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nighthawk_lovers?hl=en.
