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- WJR On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 1:34 PM, Andrew S. Baker <[email protected]> wrote: > Agreed, but I always discreetly attempt it. > > I also try to avoid relationships where I would be unable to do so... > > > > > > *ASB > **http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker* <http://xeeme.com/AndrewBaker>* > **Providing Virtual CIO Services (IT Operations & Information Security) > for the SMB market…*** > > > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Jonathan Link > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> i.e. sometimes (oftentimes?) it isn't possible to have that direct >> dialogue. >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Jonathan Link >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> Just sucks when potential employers haven't done due diligence and have >>> signed an onerous contract that prevents this kind of dialogue... >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Andrew S. Baker <[email protected]>wrote: >>> >>>> This is sometimes true in the US as well. It really just depends on >>>> the specifics. I always seek to develop a direct relationship to mitigate >>>> my personal risk. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *ASB >>>> **http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker* <http://xeeme.com/AndrewBaker>* >>>> **Providing Virtual CIO Services (IT Operations & Information >>>> Security) for the SMB market…*** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Ken Schaefer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Interesting & good to know.**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> In Australia, you deal with the end company (i.e. you will interview >>>>> with the recruiter, but then you’ll interview with the company direct). >>>>> The >>>>> recruiter isn’t involved once your hired. Gives you plenty of opportunity >>>>> to ask whatever you need to the client direct.**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> Cheers**** >>>>> >>>>> Ken**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 20 June 2013 1:13 AM >>>>> >>>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [NTSysADM] OT - tips on job change etiquette**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> I'm sick of them. I went to an office once to start a contract, after >>>>> resigning my old one, to find out it was actually an interview. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I've seen them pull so many stunts it's unbelievable. I'm chasing one >>>>> through the courts now for seven thousand pounds of unpaid wages. >>>>> >>>>> This week I mentioned I might not be able to extend my current >>>>> contract unless they could negotiate a bit more remote working, to which >>>>> the agent responded "leave it with us and we will try". Imagine my >>>>> surprise >>>>> to receive an email from a contractor friend asking why I had left my >>>>> position and if I wanted to meet him for lunch to discuss a handover >>>>> strategy! >>>>> >>>>> I would give my right arm for companies to deal with me directly. >>>>> Recruitment agents require a new circle of Hell to be put on Satan's next >>>>> yearly budget.**** >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Blackberry, which may be an antique but delivers email >>>>> RELIABLY**** >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *From: *William Robbins <[email protected]> **** >>>>> >>>>> *Sender: *[email protected]**** >>>>> >>>>> *Date: *Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:04:42 -0500**** >>>>> >>>>> *To: *<[email protected]>**** >>>>> >>>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] **** >>>>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [NTSysADM] OT - tips on job change etiquette**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> BTDT. Recently actually. I had a recruiter lie to me about a >>>>> contract. (Found that out later, he was fired, but that didn't help me in >>>>> the end) **** >>>>> >>>>> Recruiter told me, in writing it was a contract to hire position. I >>>>> got an email from the client I was working at on a Wednesday that Friday >>>>> would be my last day, and to please turn in my badge and equipment. (Nice, >>>>> huh?)**** >>>>> >>>>> When I brought up what I had been led to believe and the sole reason I >>>>> left a current FTE position I was told that this was never to be anything >>>>> more than a 90 day contract. Which I never would have accepted over my >>>>> current FTE position. I've mostly recovered, but as you say I wish >>>>> ill-will towards lying recruiters.**** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - WJR**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 9:15 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:**** >>>>> >>>>> There isn't any loyalty around anywhere. I've just spent three hours >>>>> dealing with lying, conniving recruitment agents - they should all be >>>>> exterminated.**** >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my Blackberry, which may be an antique but delivers email >>>>> RELIABLY**** >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> *From: *William Robbins <[email protected]> **** >>>>> >>>>> *Sender: *[email protected]**** >>>>> >>>>> *Date: *Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:12:47 -0500**** >>>>> >>>>> *To: *<[email protected]>**** >>>>> >>>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] **** >>>>> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [NTSysADM] OT - tips on job change etiquette**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> My advice: Say nothing to current employers, ever. Especially in a >>>>> situation where they won't commit to converting you to an FTE.**** >>>>> >>>>> *After* you get an offer, in writing, from new place then you meet >>>>> with your current manager and explain that you had hoped to have been >>>>> converted to an FTE by now, but since they haven't you are left to assume >>>>> your position there is tenuous at best and you have found a new >>>>> opportunity >>>>> that serves your best interest long term.**** >>>>> >>>>> 2 weeks is fairly standard IME. Finishing up projects is well >>>>> intentioned and all, but honestly not your responsibility once you've made >>>>> a commitment to the new firm.**** >>>>> >>>>> I understand your sense of loyalty, but bear in mind they haven't >>>>> exactly been loyal to you. Companies aren't people, no matter what the >>>>> .gov says. Companies look out for no one...IMHO.**** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> **** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> - WJR**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Don Kuhlman <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote:**** >>>>> >>>>> Morning all. Just curious as to thoughts from some colleagues in >>>>> the field.**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> Say you were in a job as a contractor at a smaller firm, and the job >>>>> was supposed to convert to full time in a few months, but that didn't >>>>> happen. However, your contract is extended several times so you are still >>>>> at the position. it may end in 6 months after being extended 18. The >>>>> people at the place are really great and the environment is laid back and >>>>> casual with very low stress.**** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> So you keep your options open and along comes what may be a very good >>>>> opportunity with a large well established place that is insourcing and >>>>> building a new team right in your preferred geography. It is also a 6 >>>>> month contract to start out, but the company wants to make it permanent >>>>> based on all information given.**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> Do you share with your current gig that you are checking into this?*** >>>>> * >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> Or if you don't share the info, and you get the offer, how do you tell >>>>> your current gig so as not to burn any bridges?**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> And if the new gig was a go, they want an immediate start time (within >>>>> 2 weeks) because their outsourced people doing the support are going to be >>>>> gone in that time. However, you are working on finishing up projects for >>>>> the current gig.**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> Any thoughts appreciated.**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> Thanks**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> Don K**** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>>> ** ** >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >
