Agreed, but I always discreetly attempt it. I also try to avoid relationships where I would be unable to do so...
*ASB **http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker* <http://xeeme.com/AndrewBaker>* **Providing Virtual CIO Services (IT Operations & Information Security) for the SMB market…*** On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Jonathan Link <[email protected]>wrote: > i.e. sometimes (oftentimes?) it isn't possible to have that direct > dialogue. > > > On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Jonathan Link > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Just sucks when potential employers haven't done due diligence and have >> signed an onerous contract that prevents this kind of dialogue... >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 12:41 PM, Andrew S. Baker <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> This is sometimes true in the US as well. It really just depends on the >>> specifics. I always seek to develop a direct relationship to mitigate my >>> personal risk. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *ASB >>> **http://XeeMe.com/AndrewBaker* <http://xeeme.com/AndrewBaker>* >>> **Providing Virtual CIO Services (IT Operations & Information Security) >>> for the SMB market…*** >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Ken Schaefer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Interesting & good to know.**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> In Australia, you deal with the end company (i.e. you will interview >>>> with the recruiter, but then you’ll interview with the company direct). The >>>> recruiter isn’t involved once your hired. Gives you plenty of opportunity >>>> to ask whatever you need to the client direct.**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Cheers**** >>>> >>>> Ken**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >>>> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 20 June 2013 1:13 AM >>>> >>>> *To:* [email protected] >>>> *Subject:* Re: [NTSysADM] OT - tips on job change etiquette**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> I'm sick of them. I went to an office once to start a contract, after >>>> resigning my old one, to find out it was actually an interview. >>>> >>>> I've seen them pull so many stunts it's unbelievable. I'm chasing one >>>> through the courts now for seven thousand pounds of unpaid wages. >>>> >>>> This week I mentioned I might not be able to extend my current contract >>>> unless they could negotiate a bit more remote working, to which the agent >>>> responded "leave it with us and we will try". Imagine my surprise to >>>> receive an email from a contractor friend asking why I had left my position >>>> and if I wanted to meet him for lunch to discuss a handover strategy! >>>> >>>> I would give my right arm for companies to deal with me directly. >>>> Recruitment agents require a new circle of Hell to be put on Satan's next >>>> yearly budget.**** >>>> >>>> Sent from my Blackberry, which may be an antique but delivers email >>>> RELIABLY**** >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From: *William Robbins <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Sender: *[email protected]**** >>>> >>>> *Date: *Wed, 19 Jun 2013 10:04:42 -0500**** >>>> >>>> *To: *<[email protected]>**** >>>> >>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] **** >>>> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [NTSysADM] OT - tips on job change etiquette**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> BTDT. Recently actually. I had a recruiter lie to me about a >>>> contract. (Found that out later, he was fired, but that didn't help me in >>>> the end) **** >>>> >>>> Recruiter told me, in writing it was a contract to hire position. I >>>> got an email from the client I was working at on a Wednesday that Friday >>>> would be my last day, and to please turn in my badge and equipment. (Nice, >>>> huh?)**** >>>> >>>> When I brought up what I had been led to believe and the sole reason I >>>> left a current FTE position I was told that this was never to be anything >>>> more than a 90 day contract. Which I never would have accepted over my >>>> current FTE position. I've mostly recovered, but as you say I wish >>>> ill-will towards lying recruiters.**** >>>> >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> >>>> - WJR**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 9:15 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:**** >>>> >>>> There isn't any loyalty around anywhere. I've just spent three hours >>>> dealing with lying, conniving recruitment agents - they should all be >>>> exterminated.**** >>>> >>>> Sent from my Blackberry, which may be an antique but delivers email >>>> RELIABLY**** >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From: *William Robbins <[email protected]> **** >>>> >>>> *Sender: *[email protected]**** >>>> >>>> *Date: *Wed, 19 Jun 2013 09:12:47 -0500**** >>>> >>>> *To: *<[email protected]>**** >>>> >>>> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] **** >>>> >>>> *Subject: *Re: [NTSysADM] OT - tips on job change etiquette**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> My advice: Say nothing to current employers, ever. Especially in a >>>> situation where they won't commit to converting you to an FTE.**** >>>> >>>> *After* you get an offer, in writing, from new place then you meet >>>> with your current manager and explain that you had hoped to have been >>>> converted to an FTE by now, but since they haven't you are left to assume >>>> your position there is tenuous at best and you have found a new opportunity >>>> that serves your best interest long term.**** >>>> >>>> 2 weeks is fairly standard IME. Finishing up projects is well >>>> intentioned and all, but honestly not your responsibility once you've made >>>> a commitment to the new firm.**** >>>> >>>> I understand your sense of loyalty, but bear in mind they haven't >>>> exactly been loyal to you. Companies aren't people, no matter what the >>>> .gov says. Companies look out for no one...IMHO.**** >>>> >>>> >>>> **** >>>> >>>> >>>> - WJR**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Don Kuhlman <[email protected]> >>>> wrote:**** >>>> >>>> Morning all. Just curious as to thoughts from some colleagues in >>>> the field.**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Say you were in a job as a contractor at a smaller firm, and the job >>>> was supposed to convert to full time in a few months, but that didn't >>>> happen. However, your contract is extended several times so you are still >>>> at the position. it may end in 6 months after being extended 18. The >>>> people at the place are really great and the environment is laid back and >>>> casual with very low stress.**** >>>> >>>> >>>> So you keep your options open and along comes what may be a very good >>>> opportunity with a large well established place that is insourcing and >>>> building a new team right in your preferred geography. It is also a 6 >>>> month contract to start out, but the company wants to make it permanent >>>> based on all information given.**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Do you share with your current gig that you are checking into this?**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Or if you don't share the info, and you get the offer, how do you tell >>>> your current gig so as not to burn any bridges?**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> And if the new gig was a go, they want an immediate start time (within >>>> 2 weeks) because their outsourced people doing the support are going to be >>>> gone in that time. However, you are working on finishing up projects for >>>> the current gig.**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Any thoughts appreciated.**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Thanks**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> Don K**** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>> >>> >> >
