*>>Wow… how long did it take you to write this on a Droid? Here goes…*
Not very long at all, courtesy of *Swype* <http://www.swypeinc.com/>. *>>**What? This “point” is like asking someone to “substantiate” why darkness is “dark”… is it dark, or just the absence of light?* No, it's not. It's more like asking you to substantiate why you believe that your $50 flashlight is providing more value in the dark room than this other $10 flashlight, which you acknowlege to be of equally fine quality. Just say, "because it is!!" or "because it's worth more!!" is not substantiation. *>>**Why do you think HP is where it is and hasn’t passed up Cisco long ago in this market?* Thanks for an answer which bears no relevance to the question. Are you really prepared to go off on a wild tangent to prove that better technology always leads to better market share? *>>**It’s just general opinion in the industry… and widely accepted at that… Google it.* Perhaps not as widely as you believe. - http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/43427 - http://www.adanetworks.com/Comparison.pdf - http://www.tolly.com/Docdetail.aspx?Docnumber=210109 - http://www.hp.com/rnd/pdfs/Tolly_Jan01.pdf And that was a mere 10 minutes of "research". Let's see yours. *>>**That’s a pretty complex sentence there chief… * Not sure why you think that. It was fairly simple and straightforward to construct -- even on a Droid. *>>**build me a car that’s equivalent to a Ferrari without incurring costs “our” complexity that negate the cost differential. Impossible?* Let's face it: analogies are just not your thing. You'd be well advised to simply stick to the question at hand. You're making wild assertions that you are unwilling or unable to substantiate. You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but stop pretending that it is somehow fact simply because you have uttered it as such. *>>**the functionality (granular/modular QoS, Advanced Security, etc.) that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish.* Please define "modular QoS" in a way that means something. I specifically used the term "use-case" for a reason. Please, for the benefit of our worldwide audience, please outline for us, a very simple scenario or two where something is accomplished on a Cisco switch that *cannot* be accomplished on a ProCurve switch without totally negating its price advantage. Buzzword bingo is not sufficient to satisfy the request of presenting a use-case scenario. We're in IT here, not marketing. If you're going to bandy words around like "advanced security" and "granular/modular QoS", please be so kind as to use them in full sentences, such that your intent can be readily discerned. It makes for far more productive conversation. Thank you kindly, *ASB *(My XeeSM Profile) <http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker> *Exploiting Technology for Business Advantage...* * * On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 10:00 PM, Rohyans, Aaron <[email protected]>wrote: > Wow… how long did it take you to write this on a Droid? Here goes… > > *Three points:* > > *- Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is > somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support > contact. (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations)* > > What? This “point” is like asking someone to “substantiate” why darkness is > “dark”… is it dark, or just the absence of light? Is cold actually “cold” > or just the absence of heat? It’s just general opinion in the industry… and > widely accepted at that… Google it. Why do you think HP is where it is and > hasn’t passed up Cisco long ago in this market? Especially since > (supposedly) they’ve been making switches longer. > > *- I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*. I did not > make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been > skewed by market share.* > > Fair enough… > > *- Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide > some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring > costs our complexity that negate the cost differential.* > > That’s a pretty complex sentence there chief… build me a car that’s > equivalent to a Ferrari without incurring costs “our” complexity that negate > the cost differential. Impossible? That’s what *makes* the cost > differential… the functionality (granular/modular QoS, Advanced Security, > etc.) that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish. > > This debate is pointless… > > *Aaron T. Rohyans* > *Senior Network Engineer* > > *CCIE #21945*** > > *DPSciences Corporation > * > 7400 N. Shadeland Ave., Suite 245 > > Indianapolis, IN 46250 > Office: (317) 348-0099 > Fax: (317) 849-7134 > *[email protected]* <[email protected]>* > *http://www.dpsciences.com/ > > *"I want an Anti-Virus system that sends Arnold back in time to kill the > hacker as a small child before he invents the virus..."* > > *"There are 10 kinds of people in this world... those who can read binary, > and those who can't"*** > > > > *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 5:48 PM > > *To:* NT System Admin Issues > *Subject:* Re: RE: Switch opinions > > > > Three points: > > - Please substantiate your allegation that HP support for networking is > somehow inferior because you're not paying for an expensive support > contact. (I've spoken to quite a few techs from both organizations) > > - I mentioned that Cisco had more failures *percentage-wise*. I did not > make the comparison on sheer number of incidents, as that would have been > skewed by market share. > > - Please provide me a use-case where a Cisco switch is proven to provide > some functionality that an HP ProCurve cannot accomplish without incurring > costs or complexity that negate the cost differential. > > You've already agreed with the equality of quality. > > These are all part of the value proposition. > > -ASB: http://XeeSM.com/AndrewBaker > > Sent from my Motorola Droid > > On Sep 16, 2010 4:49 PM, "Rohyans, Aaron" <[email protected]> wrote: > > I think you’re missing my point here… though I may not be clear enough. My > point is one of support *value*, rather than support *cost*. Is HP > cheaper than Cisco when it comes to support? … yes, hands down. Does HP > provide the same level of support from a value perspective as Cisco? … I > would have to say no. Again, *you get what you pay for*. You’re not > paying for high value support… thus, HP will gladly throw new equipment your > way and let you talk to a low-end tech all day long if it’ll make you > happy. It’s worth it to them. Cisco, on the other hand, takes a different > approach… you pay for support, but have access to a large pool of technical > resources when things go awry… even access to the developers themselves. > Keep in mind also that Cisco offers one of the best online documentation > systems of any manufacturer in the world… becoming familiar with Cisco > products is not hard… and it’s free. > > > > As to the price difference… we could argue features all day long… but how > do you define “comparable” switches? Yes, both are Ethernet switches and > both operate at 10/100/1000Gb… and if that’s all you’re after, then you > shouldn’t be looking at Cisco. Cisco offers some of the most granular and > technologically advanced features in their product lineup… “comparing” these > two switches requires a baseline for comparison. To some, Cisco’s “cheap” > in terms of what you get for the cost. To others they’re ungodly expensive, > but those “others” typically aren’t concerned with the added features that > you get with Cisco… thus HP makes the most sense, or any other vendor for > that matter. > > > > HP is probably lower in overall device failures… but they have less than > 20% of the switching market share. Compared to Cisco’s 70%, that would make > sense. *I’m not arguing the “quality” of HP/Cisco switches here*. You’re > right, both are rock solid! > > > > > > Aaron T. Rohyans > Senior Network Engineer > > CCIE #21945 > > DPSciences Corporation > 7400 N. Shadeland... > > *From:* Andrew S. Baker [mailto:[email protected]] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 16, 2010 4:04 PM > > > To: NT System Admin Issues > Subject: Re: Switch opinions > > > > > > >>It’s a lame attempt to acquire market share by offering free support on > the product line. > > ~ Finally, powerful endpoint security that ISN'T a resource hog! ~ ~ <http://www.sunbeltsoftware.com/Business/VIPRE-Enterprise/> ~ --- To manage subscriptions click here: http://lyris.sunbelt-software.com/read/my_forums/ or send an email to [email protected] with the body: unsubscribe ntsysadmin
