Hi Bob - I'm pretty much out of patience and time for this - Here's my last attempt -
Please give me a
phone call if I can clarify anything else. It's much more efficient than email...
The facts:
1. Open time trial - men and women.
2. Age-Handicap event.
3. Men in the event are handicapped towards a DIFFERENT standard than the women (since
men at their
prime are faster than women (of the same fitness/training level) at their prime) with
the men getting an
UNSURMOUNTABLE advantage for the top in the OVERALL standings.
4. The math dictates that such a handicapping method will almost certainly move most
women downwards in
the overall rankings from where they'd otherwise be.
What was Offensive:
1. Rather than trying to fix the unsurmountable gender advantage (which is SIMPLE to
do), the organizer
breaks the handicap into two events.
2. The "main event" (naturally defined as the one with the most participants) is the
"male" event (4
times as many participants)..
3. There can be NO open event (with the "official" rules) - or at least no FAIR open
event, since the
women have essentially been handicapped out of the action. (In fact I was told to not
even show the
results on the same page...).
4. Women are relegated to a second (smaller) event. THIS is offensive to me (and some
others) . As a
participant in the open tt series for 15 years - I don't come out to this event to
just compare my
results to the women - Gee, sometimes I have been the only woman out there...).
I didn't come last year to the age/handicap event because I found the format (and even
more so the
reaction to my pointing out the problem with it) objectionable. I only came this year
because I'd been
away for the whole season and I wanted to get in one of the few remaining TT's. I
certainly was NOT
there for the "official" handicap event...
Please look at and consider the numbers (handicaps, results, the number of women who
did or did not show
up, proportion of women participating, etc.). I'm sure that you'll agree that we can
make this a better
event which draws women in as full participants. And why not? Is my conservative
suggesion offensive to
others?
Again, as I said in my response to Aaron's notes:
1. I offer to produce age/gender handicap pages for each TT (if we can find some
statistically sound
age/gender performance tables). This would be easy for me to do and I think that many
participants would
like to see such pages.
2. The age/gender trophies could then perhaps be given to the best male and female
age/gender result for
the whole year.
3. We could also devise a personal-handicapping method - and perhaps have a special
personal-handicap
night. (This could of course, also be done every week in the background, but, since we
ought to have
some recent historical data, and since the event could be presented as something
"different" and
"special", it might be better to just do it once late in the TT series).
Celia
Bob Hicks wrote:
> I really am having trouble understanding the "offense" to women with the current
>handicapping
> system. As far as I can understand, there are 2 distinct sets of results and
>neither is given
> precedence. Men are handicapped by age against other men, and women are handicapped
>by age against
> other women.
>
> What, pray tell, is the "main" event? I'm not aware that there is one.
>
> There is no pretense that this is an individual handicap; it has been presented as a
>way of
> determining the "best" time trialists in the club, with consideration for age. End
>of history (for
> now). If the results are consistently skewed in favour of older riders with the
>current
> handicapping algorithm, then the algorithm should be reviewed and perhaps revised.
>
> It is true that an individual handicapping system could easily be established and
>that this kind of
> event would be quite fun. But it is certainly not the only "fair" handicapping
>method. Indeed, it
> could be argued that it would be grossly unfair to the riders who are the most
>serious and dedicated
> time trialists, since they would be the least likely to improve their handicap time.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2001 1:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [obc] TT Handicapping Method
>
> > > Aaron Fillion> As a person who got no Handicap, I thought this years handicapping
> > > method was completely fair.
> >
> > Perhaps you'd think differently if you were a woman who got no handicap in the
> > "official" event? Or perhaps you'd be a little offended if you were told that
> > sorry, you're not even a participant in the main event, but just to be ranked
> > amongst the other women???
> >
> > > Aaron> The problem I see with using a personal handicapping system, is that it
> > > is MUCH easier to improve upon your time if you are doing 30 minute 15ks
> > > opposed to if you are doing 20 minute 15ks.
> >
> > Hmmm - The current "official" age-handicapping event actually suffers from this
> > type of problem, whereas a personal handicapping system CAN certainly be devised to
> > avoid it! The current "official" handicapping event gives an unfair advantage to
> > the faster riders in each year of birth - ie., giving all 64 year old males a 165
> > second advantage regardless of their speed will benefit the faster 64 year old more
> > than the slower 64 year old (ie., the faster rider will travel farther in 165
> > seconds than will the slower rider) and since we're comparing the performance of
> > both of those 64 year olds with people of OTHER ages, we probably shouldn't be
> > giving one more of an advantage than the other relative to the other age
> > categories...
> >
> > Celia
> >
> > ------
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> >
> >
>
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