Hi all Please keep this constructive and let's not allow this to generate into a "who did what "
Thank you Robby On 28 Jun 2015 4:00 PM, "brianvamery" <[email protected]> wrote: > Of course we could Johan. What would be your suggestions? Preferably > practical. > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > > -------- Original message -------- > From: Johan Beaurain > Date:28/06/2015 15:06 (GMT+02:00) > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [obsnw] Lower Obs (other side of the Railways) very concerned > > > > Paddy, you said: > > ‘Marc, > > No removals can take place without interviewing the squatters (even if > they are returnees) and alternatives offered. Only if they refuse the offer > can the camps be dismantled and removed. I believe the first process has > been completed and the camps will be dismantled. This is the second time > this year. > > Paddy’ > > > > I am not really concerned about the letter of the law and how it is > enforced or incorrectly enforced; I would rather like us to look at this > issue from a practical point of view: > > 1. There are many homeless people living next to the river that needs > proper accommodation and support from the authorities. > > 2. We suspect that amongst these homeless people might be some > criminal elements because a few of us have seen perpetrators of crime > running that way after being caught in the act; but that is only a > suspicion, we can not suggest that all of them are criminals. > > 3. If it is true what you say that some of them were offered > alternative accommodation before, but that they have refused that; then we > need to look at an alternative solution to the problem. > > 4. What is the reasons why the refused the alternative accommodation > they were offered? Was the accommodation to far away from where they need > to be on a daily basis; or what exactly was the reason? > > 5. How can we best overcome that problem? > > 6. In my humble opinion, it would be a completely useless exercise to > keep on breaking down their shelters and loading their personal belongings > onto a truck and dropping it of somewhere else. That would not solve the > problem; because observatory is the place they want to be. It would only > result in a situation where the authorities tramp people whom are already > down and out, further into the ground. > > 7. I also suspect that if the authorities keep on tramping the poor > and homeless people further into the ground, we would not be able to > solve/decrease the crime problems in our area. > > 8. I suspect that poor, frustrated and angry people would be more > inclined to revert to criminal activities, simply because that would be > their only option to survive another day. > > Can we please look at a practical solution to this problem? > > Thanks > Johan > > On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 12:34 PM, Patrick Chapple < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Marc, >> >> No removals can take place without interviewing the squatters ( even if >> they are returnees) and alternatives offered. Only if they refuse the offer >> can the camps be dismantled and removed. I believe the first process has >> been completed and the camps will be dismantled. This is the second time >> this year. >> >> Paddy >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On >> Behalf Of *Marc Turok >> *Sent:* 28 June 2015 09:08 AM >> *To:* [email protected]; Paddy Chapple >> >> *Subject:* Re: [obsnw] Lower Obs (other side of the Railways) very >> concerned >> >> >> >> Dear Cncllr Paddy Chapple, >> >> I believe I may need to withdraw what I wrote in response to your post, >> 25 June, which I seem to have misinterpreted??? >> >> You wrote: ‘I received an attack from an organisation called Ground up >> via Facebook for removing the encampments along the Liesbeek”. .. “There >> might be one or two innocent homeless* amongst the 6 camps I removed*. >> Let me tell everyone the reality. I personally went done there...”. >> >> I clearly read into it as a current report. I took it as this has just >> been done and done with full care and diligence, offering alternative >> accommodation: Shelter offered for the “innocent”.. and those showing >> evidence of criminal activity and by law transgression, were charged for >> that and taken into custody...??? >> >> Oh! I did not get it right, since I thought this was done recently! >> >> >> >> I did not notice until yesterday, when I went for a walk along the river >> and saw that the stated intent had not been followed through recently and >> the required speed and due diligence has not reappeared YET! >> >> >> >> I now see that you had said: “I am going to raid the two new camps that >> have sprung up along the Liesbeek since the last raid.” (NOT SURE WHY its >> stated as “I” rather that the ‘appropriate authority’ will be called >> to...sort out this huge problem for Observatory. >> >> I had given you credit, personally, for acting responsibility, when >> appropriate action has actually not yet been taken! >> >> >> >> I am reinstating my *wish list* point number *18*, on behalf of OCA, >> intended to urgently get the job in addressing crime and transgression of >> bylaws, done correctly and humanely. >> >> Its essential that those transgressing, are removed without further >> delay, while providing appropriate alternative temporary shelter, >> especially for the ‘possibly innocent or uninformed’, in the middle of >> winter, and giving it urgent attention! >> >> >> >> Clearly criminals should be charged and those transgressing should be >> dealt with correctly. Is there a better solution that can be made available? >> >> >> >> Yesterday, I saw many shelters and a huge amount of dumped litter around >> them and elsewhere, waiting to be washed into the river, not to mention all >> the other negative impact concerns! >> >> >> >> Lets set up *appropriate *solutions urgently! >> >> For those critical of the action in the past....Better solutions should >> be heard if there are any. >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc Turok >> >> >> >> *From:* Patrick Chapple <[email protected]> >> >> *Sent:* Thursday, June 25, 2015 7:35 PM >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> >> *Subject:* RE: [obsnw] Lower Obs (other side of the Railways) very >> concerned >> >> >> >> Thank you Paul, >> >> But this is done by the book. First the Social workers. The Obscid Social >> Worker Kenneth Roan is outstanding. Those that wish shelter are taken >> there. But if that offer is refused, then the camps are removed. Obs as a >> community works really hard at rehabilitation and re integration. The >> Apartheid days are over. But there is certainly a crime nest operating out >> of the camps along the Liesbeek! >> >> Paddy Chapple >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *[email protected] >> *Sent:* 25 June 2015 07:26 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [obsnw] Lower Obs (other side of the Railways) very >> concerned >> >> >> >> Let me know when........I will assist >> >> Paul >> >> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! >> ------------------------------ >> >> *From: *Patrick Chapple <[email protected]> >> >> *Sender: *[email protected] >> >> *Date: *Thu, 25 Jun 2015 17:21:21 +0000 >> >> *To: *mailto:[email protected]%[email protected] >> <[email protected]%[email protected]>> >> >> *ReplyTo: *[email protected] >> >> *Subject: *RE: [obsnw] Lower Obs (other side of the Railways) very >> concerned >> >> >> >> I received an attack from an organisation called Ground up via Facebook >> for removing the encampments along the Liesbeek. Yes, I agree. There might >> be one or two innocent homeless amongst the 6 camps I removed. Let me tell >> everyone the reality. I personally went done there. How many of these >> people are cross dressers? Because the litter was predominated by hand >> bags! Witnesses who guard the SAN Circus have witnessed the thefts and >> directly point at the perpetrators running towards the river. A robbery at >> Merindol ( number 2) is a case in point. On my site visit, I was certainly >> tracked by two residents whose intentions seemed to be not to ask me for >> my Business card. Now I have an NGO, Groundup, who are complaining! But >> where were they when I asked NGOs to assist? As usual only the City and >> Obscid responded! I am going to raid the two new camps that have sprung up >> along the Liesbeek since the last raid. I suggest Groundup consult with >> them. Because crime WILL go down below the railway line when these camps >> are removed. And incidentally. Groundup financial books make interesting >> reading. More wages than action! Lot more wages! Groundup stop exploiting. >> Offer your services to Obscid. Be part of the solution! You are making >> problems for your own financial game, it seems. >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected] >> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Marc Turok >> *Sent:* 25 June 2015 11:04 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [obsnw] Lower Obs (other side of the Railways) very >> concerned >> >> >> >> The idea of people chipping in would be a very local thing for a few >> streets to get some extra help during some hours when volunteers are not >> available for a limited period like two months to break the crime cycle >> while OBSID is getting its broad evenly spread security ‘activities’ >> together in full tilt once again...not to try raise funds like Obswatch >> attempted to do for the whole of Observatory. >> >> If the problem is seen to be Friday and Saturday night 9 to 12 pm and >> for example and no one is available to volunteer then maybe employ someone >> to help for 6 hrs a week at about R30 or R40 per hour ..One would need to >> raise R 180 to 240 per week, lets say for a month trial to see the impact. >> The mini area would need to raise about R1000 for the month. I am saying if >> those who are not able to volunteer time, were to contribute R 40 to R80 >> for the month, one would need 15 to 25 households to chip in for this >> turnaround strategy to kick in. This in addition to volunteers doing >> patrols. If the combination works as an improvement, it could be changed eg >> to do a stakeout at another time like Wednesday and Friday afternoon for >> two hours each instead of weekend nigh, rotating and uncover the patterns >> that need to be noticed and acted on by OPS. >> >> Regards, >> >> Marc >> >> >> >> *From:* marion <[email protected]> >> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 24, 2015 2:47 PM >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> >> *Subject:* Re: [obsnw] Lower Obs (other side of the Railways) very >> concerned >> >> >> >> Hi All >> >> I have read the comments on this topic so far with interest. >> >> While it is good news that crime has gone down in Obs in general, armed >> muggings are most definitely on the increase in Lower Obs. I have lived in >> Crown St for 20 years, and while we have had issues with car and house >> break-ins, I do not recall having so many aggressive muggings as this >> recent spate. Like Melanie, I am feeling scared to walk around my own >> neighbourhood, and also worry for my child, as well as our childminder and >> her daughter. >> >> - I agree that the community can do a lot to address this situation, and >> Jonah, I like your sign idea. I also agree that patrols are effective not >> as an alternative to policing, but to simply get more people out and about. >> Other activities like the moonlight walk achieve this too. >> >> - However, I am concerned that the prioritisation of the Lower Main rd >> issues, combined with the installation of cameras, has been at the expense >> of lower Obs. Future plans need to be less reactive and put plans in place >> that benefit the whole of Observatory, not just one part of it. >> >> - I am willing to consider putting in extra as a once off to pay for >> cameras. However, I am not in favour of trying to get households to make a >> regular additional financial commitment to pay for extra security. Those of >> you who were around during the Obswatch days will know that it is a >> nightmare trying to get people to pay up monthly. The forced levying >> through rates is the only way to get a monthly income one can rely on to >> contract security staff. >> >> >> >> Marion >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room >> >> TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> EMERGENCIES: 10111 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ONW email: [email protected] >> WEB: www.obswatch.org.za >> FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send >> email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send >> email to [email protected]. For more options, visit >> this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> [image: Avast logo] <http://www.avast.com/> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room >> >> TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> EMERGENCIES: 10111 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ONW email: [email protected] >> WEB: www.obswatch.org.za >> FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send >> email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send >> email to [email protected]. For more options, visit >> this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> Disclaimer: This e-mail (including attachments) is subject to the >> disclaimer published at: >> http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/disclaimer.aspx. Please read the >> disclaimer before opening any attachment or taking any other action in >> terms of this e-mail. If you cannot access the disclaimer, kindly send an >> email to [email protected] and a copy will be provided to you. >> By replying to this e-mail or opening any attachment you agree to be bound >> by the provisions of the disclaimer. >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room >> >> TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> EMERGENCIES: 10111 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ONW email: [email protected] >> WEB: www.obswatch.org.za >> FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send >> email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send >> email to [email protected]. For more options, visit >> this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room >> >> TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> EMERGENCIES: 10111 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ONW email: [email protected] >> WEB: www.obswatch.org.za >> FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send >> email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send >> email to [email protected]. For more options, visit >> this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> Disclaimer: This e-mail (including attachments) is subject to the >> disclaimer published at: >> http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/disclaimer.aspx. Please read the >> disclaimer before opening any attachment or taking any other action in >> terms of this e-mail. If you cannot access the disclaimer, kindly send an >> email to [email protected] and a copy will be provided to you. >> By replying to this e-mail or opening any attachment you agree to be bound >> by the provisions of the disclaimer. -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room >> >> TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> EMERGENCIES: 10111 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ONW email: [email protected] >> WEB: www.obswatch.org.za >> FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send >> email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send >> email to [email protected]. For more options, visit >> this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> [image: Avast logo] <http://www.avast.com/> >> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> www.avast.com >> >> >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room >> >> TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> EMERGENCIES: 10111 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ONW email: [email protected] >> WEB: www.obswatch.org.za >> FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send >> email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send >> email to [email protected]. For more options, visit >> this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> Disclaimer: This e-mail (including attachments) is subject to the >> disclaimer published at: >> http://www.capetown.gov.za/en/Pages/disclaimer.aspx. Please read the >> disclaimer before opening any attachment or taking any other action in >> terms of this e-mail. If you cannot access the disclaimer, kindly send an >> email to [email protected] and a copy will be provided to you. >> By replying to this e-mail or opening any attachment you agree to be bound >> by the provisions of the disclaimer. >> >> -- >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room >> >> TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> EMERGENCIES: 10111 >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ONW email: [email protected] >> WEB: www.obswatch.org.za >> FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send >> email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send >> email to [email protected]. For more options, visit >> this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room > > TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > EMERGENCIES: 10111 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ONW email: [email protected] > WEB: www.obswatch.org.za > FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send > email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send > email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this > group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room > > TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > EMERGENCIES: 10111 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ONW email: [email protected] > WEB: www.obswatch.org.za > FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send > email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send > email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this > group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- OPS [Obsid Public Safety] - 24/7 control room TEL: 021-447-1066 or 072-063-1653 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- EMERGENCIES: 10111 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ONW email: [email protected] WEB: www.obswatch.org.za FACEBOOK: facebook.com/obswatch ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Useful Obs Numbers: obs.org.za/obsdir You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups The Observatory Neighbourhood watch group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at https://groups.google.com/d/forum/obsnw?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Observatory Neighbourhood Watch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
