Hi Karen, I think this is definitely doable (although I think it would be worth making a new predicate for this -- there's probably enough value linking different parts of the WEMI chain to keep associatedEntity).
Basically, what we want to say is that these two resources are describing the same bibliographic entity? I think this is a fine idea and there can be two approaches (although I'm going to lean towards the Ian Davis FRBR for the sorts of FRBR-hackery I'm going to propose first): 1) Basically mint a new subclass of frbr:Endeavour, something like: frbr:CompositeEntity, meaning basically that this represents multiple entities, but not to explicitly declare which ones -- then we can just use ov:associatedEntity 2) Rather than doing that, make a subproperty of dcterms:relation (a decent name eludes me right now) that says that we're talking about the same bibliographic resource, so predicates can be used interchangeably, as appropriate (basically a skos:exactMatch or owl:sameAs -- sort of -- for bibliographic similarity). Running out the door, but I'll think about some appropriate names while chaperoning my son's pre-K class to the art museum... When not telling 4 years old to stop touching the paintings. -Ross. On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:54 AM, Karen Coyle <[email protected]> wrote: > Ross, your associatedEntity description reads: > > "This property is used to relate two FRBR Endeavours/entities > (http://vocab.org/frbr/core.html#Endeavour) together even if the > entire Work-Expression-Manifestation-Item hierarchy does not exist. > For example, it could be used to relate a frbr:Work to a > frbr:Manifestation without the need of a frbr:Expression to link them > through. The property is symmetric (if a <_:work> ov:associatedEntity > <_:item> then <_:item> ov:associatedEntity <_:work>. It is not > transitive (items may be associated with the same work but not be in > the same WEMI chain, for example)." > > Could this be generalized to work beyond FRBR? I'm thinking that it > might be useful to link, for example, a MARC record to a FRBR work > entity. Obviously it would be better to have a link that tells you HOW > the two things are related/associated, but I can well imagine many > situations where something more general will be useful. So maybe > something like: > > "This property is used to relate two bibliographic entities (such as > as subclasses of FRBR Endeavor; > http://vocab.org/frbr/core.html#Endeavour) together even if they are > not entities of the same type. For example, a bibliographic entity in > a MARC record could be associated with any FRBR entity; or FRBR > entities could be related even though where entire > Work-Expression-Manifestation-Item hierarchy does not exist, e.g. to > relate a frbr:Work to a frbr:Manifestation without the need of a > frbr:Expression to link them through. The property is symmetric (if a > <_:work> ov:associatedEntity <_:item> then <_:item> > ov:associatedEntity <_:work>. It is not transitive (items may be > associated with the same work but not be in the same WEMI chain, for > example)." > > Or is that just too generic? > > kc > > Quoting Ross Singer <[email protected]>: > >> Ok, I just created: >> http://open.vocab.org/terms/associatedEntity >> >> which links two frbr:Endeavours together symmetrically. >> >> -Ross. >> >> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Ross Singer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Karen, Erik is right that: >>> >>> <http://openlibrary.org/works/OL262758W/> >>> frbr:Manifestation <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL10236414M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL10636839M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL10681592M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL10686044M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL13268284M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL1937352M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL20352933M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL21968605M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL22836306M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL24374464M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL24375966M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL3969888M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL5416735M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL5526619M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL6363476M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7261137M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7262049M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7262683M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7603172M/>, >>> <http://openlibrary.org/books/OL7851787M/> ; >>> a frbr:Work . >>> >>> isn't going to work (frbr:Manifestation being a class, not a >>> property). While you're right that there is no (current) obvious way >>> to go jump over frbr:Entities in the WEMI chain, there are some >>> options here. >>> >>> For the version of the OL data that we host in the Platform, we're >>> using dcterms:hasVersion/isVersionOf. >>> >>> http://api.talis.com/stores/openlibrary/meta?about=http://openlibrary.org/works/OL262758W&output=xml >>> >>> which isn't great, but the fact that both ends of the chain are >>> frbr:Entities, we can infer the meaning. Even better would be add >>> properties to http://open.vocab.org/: something like >>> hasManifestation/manifestationOf. Perhaps even better would be to >>> leverage http://vocab.org/frbr/core.html#Endeavour - associatedEntity >>> as a property name perhaps? - that makes the modeling less >>> complicated. That way we know that these are in the same WEMI chain, >>> but we don't necessarily have to explicitly define /what/ it is in the >>> relationship. >>> >>> -Ross. >>> >>> On Wed, Nov 10, 2010 at 9:28 AM, Karen Coyle <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Quoting Erik Hetzner <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>> >>>>> What I meant to be getting at is that the rdf:type of the resources >>>>> M1, M2, ... is (currently) workManifested, while the predicate linking >>>>> W and M1, M2, ... is frbr:Manifestation. I think this is backwards; >>>>> they rdf:type should be frbr:Manifestation, while the predicate should >>>>> be workManifested. >>>> >>>> Thanks, Erik. From this conversation I have come to the realization >>>> that there is no way to say: "this Work is Manifested as..." using >>>> FRBR concepts. Instead, what I need to do is to create short "records" >>>> for each manifestation that in effect each say: "manifests WorkX". I >>>> don't think I can encapsulate the whole in a single rdf/xml unit >>>> without creating some uber-structure that holds them together (which >>>> would perhaps be a representation of FRBR Group 1 as a super-class, >>>> something the the FRBR committee has rejected). I'll mock up something >>>> and post it before I code it into the OL template. >>>> >>>> kc >>>> >>>>> >>>>> As to which direction workManifested points, or its domain or range, I >>>>> have no clue, but I assume you are correct here. >>>>> >>>>> best, Erik >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Ol-tech mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech >>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Karen Coyle >>>> [email protected] http://kcoyle.net >>>> ph: 1-510-540-7596 >>>> m: 1-510-435-8234 >>>> skype: kcoylenet >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Ol-tech mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech >>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ol-tech mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech >> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to >> [email protected] >> > > > > -- > Karen Coyle > [email protected] http://kcoyle.net > ph: 1-510-540-7596 > m: 1-510-435-8234 > skype: kcoylenet > > _______________________________________________ > Ol-tech mailing list > [email protected] > http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to > [email protected] > _______________________________________________ Ol-tech mailing list [email protected] http://mail.archive.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ol-tech To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to [email protected]
