Hi Raphael, On 8 January 2015 at 00:59, Raphaël Jadot <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > 2015-01-07 13:48 GMT+01:00 Guilherme Moro <[email protected]>: > >> Hi, >> >> just a little intervention here :) >> >> Again I see people acting defensively against Per comments, so I'll shift >> the conversation a little bit so maybe it can get clearer for all involved. >> So to start a proper conversation about what OMA should do to raise money >> and be noticed I'll ask each one that have interest to mail the answer for >> this question: >> > > Per Øyvind's intervention seems to be very interesting in the substance. > In the current context is not easy to jump in, but in fact it's never easy. > What is hard is that some people are really hard working inside > development, they are very lonely, with difficulties to find support both > with workforce, motivation, and even now finances. And not being working > all at the same place makes things even harder. > > >> What exactly is the goal of OMA ? >> > > Thank you for this question, this is a very important one, I know that > also for Joao and several people I discuss with. > > > First there is two things, OMA which is the association, and the only > project currently supported by the association who is OMLx > And secondly there is for all of us some personal reasons for working on a > project, that may lead to a common public goal. And maybe we did not take > enough time to talk about our personal reasons :) > > About OMLx > > From my own vision. At first, I thought that OMA's goal was to be very > close of Rosa, with same base and development but different finishing, Rosa > being pushed by the needs of the company, and OMA by a community needs and > wishes. At least, it was what was more or less defined at the first meeting > we had in Paris, but things seems to have evoluted, both from Rosa's side > and OMLx project's side. However I don't understand all, but I see that not > every one is on the same line. > > Being pragamtic, contrary to a company, only motivation can make > developers and contribs work on a projectt such as OMLx. You can't force > someone working for something about which she/he has no inteterest or fun > working for or money (it's not a lesson, I know that you are aware of it > :). This means interesting challenge, motivation, good work condition and > positive feedback to developers and contributors are also a very important > personal reasons. > > We certainly should take time to talk about each personal reasons to see > if we can extract a clear and common goal (or goals for OM Lx) > > > About OMA > > My personal reason is that believing in community and free software (maybe > fanatic? :p ), I want to help making OMA a place where as many developers > and contributors wanting to participate feels good, like to be, like to > work, or are interested to join, and then promote community/free software. > I want to help OMA be a place easy to join for motivated developers, a > ground of surprises with new talents and experienced people. In fact > personnaly nothing else than this really interests me at such level. I > don't care in any specific technology or another, even if I'm curious and > like to discuss about. The goal that can be extracted from this personal > reason is exaclty the purpose of the association in the Statutes, to which > I strongly contributed: > > > *Article 3 - Purpose of the Association* >> >> *The purpose of the association OpenMandriva is: * >> >> - * the creation, enhancement, promotion and distribution of free >> software and open source in general, and in particular OpenMandriva >> projects; * >> - * promoting free exchange of knowledge and access to all software >> and development, for personal, commercial, educational or scientific use. >> * >> >> According to these statutes, this implies: > > * Developers and contributors must have the power to decide what goals > they want (considering their personal motivations), the offical role of the > association is then to promote these goals, finance them etc. as long as > it's possible to do this. > > * Not to be forgotten there is place for different projects if there are > people working on it. (however it must be convincing enough to be supported > by the association, because there are also time and energy and motivation > needed on this side) > > > *Then the goals of each projects, including OM Lx (currently the only > projects on which people works inside OMA) needs to be defined by the one > who works on it, based on their personal motivation, but taking in > consideration the whole context and feasability.* > Agreed with what you said, but it gets confusing at some stage where is the line between what OMA does as a goal, and what the projects does as goal, I know it's hard to put on words that idea that is crystallized in your head, but look how open ended is this sentence of yours : ".... *taking in consideration the whole context and feasability.*" What is the context? How can I measure the feasibility? What will OMA accept as a project? What are the guidelines? Who get to decide what fits the purpose of the association? Of course that you may say that the council, that is open for the contributors to participate in, is the one organ that is going to decide, but then, what are the criteria? If a decision will be made, sure the council has a vague idea of what exactly they are looking for, in technical terms even. So back to OM Lx (that is the one I was actually referring myself when I said OMA), we need clear guidance about the long term goal. At first I had the same impression as you, we should go for a partnership with ROSA, as this would be clear a win-win situation, where we would benefit from the marvellous work they did in creating ABF and some other tools and apps, and they could benefit from our work in the basesystem for their commercial purposes. But as you said, this at some point got lost, and people think in ROSA nowadays as some kind of competitor, and for real, they are a competitor, because OM Lx is trying to do exactly the same they are trying with ROSA Fresh. So once again I raise the question, isn't time we split OM Lx in a separate project, and let cooker live like another one? Give cooker a status within the community that will work in a stable, not always fully up to date distro base, that OM Lx and ROSA could work on? Isn't time to separate this idea of newer!! faster !! that OM Lx is trying to "enforce" in the community and walk slowly for a decoupling where OM Lx could have their separate repository and push back to cooker just stable software? I understand that most of people disagree with this vision, I'm not sure that this would be the right way forward either, but in the past cooker was the "testing" version of MDV, and so chaos reigned, but we live different times, and we NEED now cooker to be a proper stable base, because the way we formed this new community makes cooker the perfect fit for a stable base from where OM Lx, ROSA, Moondrake and so many others could flourish upon. But this is just a quick suggestion from the top of my head, questions that I ask myself every time I stumble upon this subject, every time I get mad with my current distro and I want to contribute to make something better, bigger, nicer. > > > > > >> >> And I really expect objective answers only, I know most people think that >> the goal is to succeed, but succeed in what? Do you want to be a Desktop >> distro? For what kind of user? Do you want to add value to ARM users, how? >> Do you want to focus in enterprise distros? Desktop or Server then? Do you >> want to be an easy to use distro, if yes, why you think OMA distro is the >> answer and must focus on that, if there are tons of distros around, >> including ROSA that is going forward on the Desktop area much quicker than >> we are. >> > > > >> >> >> After answering this question clearly, not for me, not for Per, but for >> yourselves, we can then start a proper conversation and critique of the >> current structure and process. >> >> +1 > > >> And again I urge you, be clear, direct and pragmatic, this is not an >> answer to the criticisms, is just a honest answer to yourself. >> >> Regarding the topic at hand, if you don't have the answer to this >> question, how you want to ask people for money in a crowdfunding? If you >> read the crowd page as someone that never heard about OMA, you see that >> there's no clear goal of what the money would be used to, so I find hard >> anyone would contribute anything. >> >> > Thanks for intervention, sad you don't want to take more part in the > Association or a project ;) > Don't do that, don't play with my feelings! :p You know better why I'm not participating more actively, and we are trying to get rid of this problem right now :) In a side note, who is actually in contact with ROSA people? Is there any employee actively working in trying an integration between us from a non-technical perspective? Best regards, Guilherme Moro > > >> Regards, >> >> Guilherme Moro >> >> >> >> On 29 December 2014 at 21:08, Blackcrack <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 29.12.2014 um 15:06 schrieb Per Øyvind Karlsen: >>> >>> 2014-12-28 13:34 GMT+01:00 Tomasz Gajc <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> Per everybody can criticise, >>>> >>> True, but not constructively. >>> >>>> but not everybody can change anything. >>>> >>> Most certainly, which is why constructive criticism is of prime value >>> for not doing things twrong. >>> >>>> So blaming around the house all people is not a desired attitude, hope >>>> this will tell you something. >>>> >>> Noone is blaming, this is called constructive criticism and not blaming >>> for a reason. >>> If you want a crowd of yay-sayers without the ability to change anything >>> and leave it at that, then fine, but then you're all on your own and lost >>> before you've even begun. >>> >>> I'm offering to help, both in the form of advice on thing to do and >>> really not do, only thing I'm saying is untill certain issues has been >>> resolved, my contributions are limited to harm reduction, which should be >>> appreciated regardless of it not being the thing most people behind >>> something wants to hear. >>> >>> FWIW majority of the active cooker contributors and several OMA >>> community has approached me for several months now with concerns and >>> discontent over the current situation, that should say something, obviously >>> I'm not the only one "blaming", I only chose to do so in public. >>> >>> --- >>> Regards >>> Per Øyvind >>> >>> >>> i see it same, constructive critic it's more worth as something try to >>> blame. ! >>> and i see Per's words also more as critic in constructive form.. >>> @ Per Øyvind, Per, try to make an membership on/in OM ... and so on .. >>> for have the possible to determine with and then draw the whole thing in >>> the right direction.. >>> and have the possible for do this . . >>> >>> and for all other's there, again, what do you are think, why i ever pray >>> to make fast as possible >>> an real Mandrake-installer to build, in which language it is, it's >>> really all the same for the enduser, >>> the thing it is, to have the possible for custom install and on any way, >>> burn the Cd on Iso or move it >>> on usb or maybe an 2 Disk-online installer to have like it was in the >>> first times.. >>> easy an easy possible for custom install and maybe also directly online >>> install (and not need donloading isos') >>> and an well and easy working custom install directly down from the >>> ftp's, >>> and this was also an part of Mandrake , why have mandrake and mandriva >>> so big success .. >>> and as next the thing with drakconf without this both components be >>> Mandrake not really mandrake, >>> and only mandrake was loved from the whole peoples and have an had >>> success by the whole peoples.. >>> >>> 1. easy install, if possible directly from the ftp's/http's >>> sources/mirrors >>> via usb-stick or an small 40mb iso in any way .. where can boot the iso >>> .. >>> >>> The own, custom System, where can install, like the enduser whant, and >>> not only kde ! >>> and this is the best system also for Providers also ! Because they are >>> can easy as possible setting up an Webserver for customers . >>> >>> 2. easy to configuration with one Control centre . >>> where should be include Virtual Domains and User-webspace who should be >>> possible >>> And the Workstation for others who need an only an workstation with >>> Yellow Pages (NIS) >>> or the Other, in an Factory, an LDAP System for Manny employee or >>> customer or how ever.. >>> the next thing it is, Notebook install, an surface for notebook, what at >>> moment standart it is.. >>> but this is an Notebook Surface and not an Desktop for anybody.. i hate >>> it, >>> i kick the OMV Taksbar directly away and use the Standard-KDe Taskbar. >>> and many other configurations who be possible with an Installer who it >>> is possible for an real Custom install . >>> >>> Easy, just for any an possible custom system . an Custom System for >>> anybody, >>> but there mus simply be the installer voices and be right. >>> >>> An RPM-releated installer .. >>> >>> best regards >>> Blacky >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OM-Cooker mailing >>> [email protected]http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-cooker-openmandriva.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> OM-Cooker mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-cooker-openmandriva.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> OM-Cooker mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-cooker-openmandriva.org >> > > > _______________________________________________ > OM-Cooker mailing list > [email protected] > http://ml.openmandriva.org/listinfo.cgi/om-cooker-openmandriva.org >
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