Very nicely said, Kathy.

Terran McCanna
PINES Program Manager
Georgia Public Library Service
1800 Century Place, Suite 150
Atlanta, GA 30345

On Fri, Mar 30, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Kathy Lussier <>

> Hi,
> In regards to this question:
> What can we do to get this fixed in 3.2 if not sooner?
> And the responses thus far:
> 1. Fix it yourself.
> 2. Hire someone else to fix it.
> 3. Wait for someone else to do 1 or 2.
> #4: work together to get it fixed (i.e. funding through development 
> partnerships)
> I also would like to talk about the role of positive advocacy in getting
> attention on particular bugs, which may not guarantee that they get fixed,
> but certainly could draw enough developer attention towards the bug to
> result in it getting fixed. I guess this is really another spin on Jason's
> solution #3 - wait for someone else to do 1 or 2.
> What exactly is positive advocacy? It's raising discussion on the lists,
> just as we did here, to ask about a bug and to see if it also has an impact
> on other Evergreen sites. It involves participating in LP discussions or
> raising questions in IRC. It not only involves discussing why the bug is
> important, but contributing to discussions on the best approach to fix it.
> In the case of this particular bug, for example, there was discussion of
> adding a "show empty libraries" option and a question of whether it should
> replace the "show empty volumes" option or not. Getting feedback on
> questions like this is very helpful. If a developer decides to take on the
> bug, it will give them a clear direction for moving forward. Positive
> advocacy also includes committing to test a fix when it is available.
> On a related side note, that Sandbox request form we use for Bug Squashing
> Day is never turned off. If you ever want to test a bug fix when it's not
> Bug Squashing Day, feel free to submit it or contact me directly. If I have
> the a server and the time, I'm happy to load fixes so that people can help
> with getting that bug fix merged to Evergreen. It's available at
> I use the word 'positive' because I do think there is a thin line between
> advocating that *we* as a community work together to fix a bug and
> treating the community as a *they *that should be fixing a given bug or
> introducing a new feature. FWIW, I am not saying that Scott was doing this
> when he raised his question. Given the amount of sponsored development that
> has come for both enhancements and bug fixes from PaILS, it's clear that he
> already recognizes his organization's role in contributing to the
> improvement of Evergreen. In general, though, I have seen this sentiment in
> other discussions, and, as frustrating as it can be when you're dealing
> with a problematic bug, we have to keep in mind that we're all on this
> together. The more people who take on the responsibility of helping improve
> Evergreen in some small or even large way, the better the software will be
> for all of our users.
> I'm guessing that part of the original question really related to how
> positive advocacy turns into an actual bug fix. With the release of 3.1, I
> think we're all seeing that 3.2, when the xul client will no longer be
> available for our users, is just around the corner. Although the web client
> has come a long way, I think it's natural that there is some anxiety over
> remaining bugs that are preventing staff from using the new client or
> making it difficult for them to use it.
> Based on my observations over the past eight years, I would say all of the
> following are factors in whether a bug gets fixed through these community
> channels.
> Does the bug break critical functionality? For example, you can't build
> the software, bib records can no longer be saved, you can no longer perform
> checkouts. Generally, these are the types of bugs that get High priority in
> Launchpad and are fixed very quickly.
> Is there a developer capable of fixing a bug who has the time to work on
> it or are they in the middle of some other large project, like a migration?
> How long will it take to fix the bug? Is it a complex or easy fix?
> has been a
> high-priority bug for five years now, but it's complex and will take many
> developer hours to fix. It's more difficult to get large fixes done without
> asking a developer in your own organization to fix it or funding the fix.
> Sometimes, low priority bugs get fixed simply because they're quick and
> easy and more people may be capable of fixing it.
> Does the developer believe it will also affect the people in their own
> organization? In organizations that have a developer, the positive advocacy
> may be the thing that brings it to the attention of some cataloger or circ
> person who then communicates to their developer that it is indeed a
> critical issue. If the problem is related to serials and the developer
> works at a library that doesn't use serials, they are less likely to work
> on it.
> Think of it in terms of volunteering that you may do in your own home
> communities. If somebody asks you to bake something for a bake sale to
> raise funds for a cause you believe in, you may quickly say yes without a
> thought. If they ask you to organize the bake sale, the answer may depend
> on whether you have time or on how strongly you feel about the cause. If
> you don't care about the cause at all (i.e. you can't understand why anyone
> would ever want Evergreen to work that way), you may never say yes no
> matter how much time you have. If the fundraiser is actually a capital
> campaign project for a new library, it doesn't matter how many people feel
> strongly about the issue, you may still need to hire a professional
> fundraiser to organize the campaign for you.
> No matter how much positive advocacy I personally do for specific bugs, in
> the end, I know if the MassLNC organizations feel strongly about a bug fix
> or feature, we need to be prepared to fund it or have one of our internal
> developers work on it. There are times when I've gritted my teeth while
> funding a project, either because I think the software should just work
> that way or because I feel like we've already invested enough into the
> feature. However, I also know we are also indebted to many developers in
> this community who have quickly fixed issues, both large and small, as a
> result of our positive advocacy. In the end, it all balances out.
> Kathy
> On 03/29/2018 02:02 PM, wrote:
> Jason,
>    Thank you for this information. Regarding this particular bug, it is too 
> serious to leave to #3, and we don't have the wherewithal to do #1 so we may 
> try to do #2...but will likely need funding partners...which brings us to #4: 
> work together to get it fixed.
> Scott
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Open-ils-general 
> [ 
> <>] On Behalf Of Jason 
> Stephenson
> Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:44 PM
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Holdings View in Web Client
> On 03/29/2018 11:27 AM, wrote:
> I agree this is an impediment to implementing the Web Client in
> centralized or semi-centralized cataloging departments (of which we
> have many). I am just not conversant on the ins & outs of how to get
> fixes into a release versus a maintenance release versus a patch
> Bug targeting is done by one of the members of the drivers group. It is 
> usually done only for bugs that have patches or where someone is working on 
> it and is likely to have a patch ready in time for the release. We (mostly I) 
> sometimes break the unwritten rules and target bugs prematurely.
> As for how to get specific bugs fixed, you basically have 3 options:
> 1. Fix it yourself.
> 2. Hire someone else to fix it.
> 3. Wait for someone else to do 1 or 2.
> HtH,
> Jason
> --
> Kathy Lussier
> Project Coordinator
> Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative(508)
> Twitter:

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