Hi Gerard, "The consequence is that SNOMED must be a complete Medicinal Product Formulary. I have doubts whether this is a good idea.'
dm+d is a UK health-service managed dictionary based on SNOMED CT and using the UK national namespace i.e. it is not managed internationally. It is a complete Product formulary/dictionary but only for UK. I understand that Aus and New Zealand have very similar approaches. Ian Dr Ian McNicoll mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 office +44 (0)1536 414994 skype: ianmcnicoll email: i...@freshehr.com twitter: @ianmcnicoll Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd. Director, HANDIHealth CIC Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL On 19 May 2016 at 09:19, "Gerard Freriks (privé)" <gf...@luna.nl> wrote: > An alternative for dealing with semantic in archetypes is dealing with > semantics in coding systems like SNOMED. > > The consequence is that SNOMED must be a complete Medicinal Product > Formulary. > I have doubts whether this is a good idea. > > Many countries have different specific formularies. > I like to reserve SNOMED-CT to use as any dictionary with universal > lemma’s, concepts. > Each country will have its own maintained Formulary. > A formulary that changes because of the marketing whims of pharmaceutical > companies. > > > Gerard Freriks > +31 620347088 > gf...@luna.nl > > On 19 mei 2016, at 10:09, Ian McNicoll <i...@freshehr.com> wrote: > > Hi Thomas, > > In the UK (and ? Aus/NZ), we would not use arbitrary units in UCUM for > dose units because the latter are expressed as SNOMED terms, and are used > in conjunction with the SNOMED-based dm+d (or AMT) drug dictionary to > compute actual doses/amounts where possible. > > e.g. > > 318421004 | Atenolol 100mg tablets | > > via dm+d allows us to infer that 1 tab (in this case) = 100mg > > http://dmd.medicines.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?VMP=318421004&toc=nofloat > > and allows us to do maximum daily dose calculation, at least against a > defined subset of such 'dose units'. > > in other cases the dose unit strength will be defined as part of the > medication order - we have a 'Strength' element in the medication order > archetype for just such a purpose. > > I don't think we need to be able to define the unit strength as part of > the quantity datatype. > > Ian > > Dr Ian McNicoll > mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 > office +44 (0)1536 414994 > skype: ianmcnicoll > email: i...@freshehr.com > twitter: @ianmcnicoll > > Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org > Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd. > Director, HANDIHealth CIC > Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL > > On 19 May 2016 at 08:24, Thomas Beale <thomas.be...@openehr.org> wrote: > >> Hi Gerard, >> >> they actually could be, but whenever this discussion comes up, no-one >> proposes it. I'm not sure if I would either, because these arbitrary units >> are still not computable in general, but 'dose units' can be made >> computable but only with some extra data fields, i.e. you need both the >> quantity of dose in 1 tablet/capsule etc, and also number of tablet/capsule >> etc. So the structural model is different anyway. >> >> I think the other problem with using UCUM arbitrary units is that people >> / orgs want to control the names of medicinal delivery products ('tablet' >> etc) in a terminology, which is reasonable, but doesn't fit so well with >> UCUM. >> >> - thomas >> >> On 19/05/2016 08:11, "Gerard Freriks (privé)" wrote: >> >> Thomas, >> >> All are Units of a different kind. >> >> SI defines: Units of Measure, and Units of Quantity in the scientific >> domain. >> >> There are also Units of Time: minute, hour, etc. >> >> When I think of tablets, capsule, etc. we will call these Units of >> Medicinal Product Dose. >> Isn’t in UCUM this an example of Arbitrary Units? >> 3.2 ARBITRARY UNITS >> >> *§24 arbitrary units* * ■1* Arbitrary or procedure defined units >> are units whose meaning entirely depends on the measurement procedure >> (assay). These units have no general meaning in relation with any other >> unit in the SI. Therefore those arbitrary semantic entities are called >> *arbitrary >> units*, as opposed to *proper units*. The set of arbitrary units is >> denoted *A*, where *A*∩ *U* = {}. * ■2* An arbitrary unit has no >> further definition in the semantic framework of *The Unified Code for >> Units of Measure* * ■3* Arbitrary units are not “of any specific >> dimension” and are not “commensurable with” any other unit. >> >> Until version 1.6 *The Unified Code for Units of Measure* has dealt with >> arbitrary units as dimensionless, but as an effect the semantics of *The >> Unified Code for Units of Measure* made all arbitrary units >> commensurable. Since version 1.7 of *The Unified Code for Units of >> Measure* it is no longer possible to convert or compare arbitrary units >> with any other arbitrary unit. >> >> *§25 operations on arbitrary units* * ■1* Any term involving >> arbitrary units, is itself an arbitrary unit and is not comparable with any >> other arbitrary unit or term. >> >> *§26 definition of arbitrary units* * ■1* Arbitrary units are >> marked in the definition tables for unit atoms by a bullet (‘•’) in the >> column titled “value” and a bullet in the column titled “definition”. >> >> >> Gerard Freriks >> +31 620347088 >> <gf...@luna.nl>gf...@luna.nl >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> openEHR-technical mailing list >> openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org >> >> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-technical mailing list > openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org > > http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > openEHR-technical mailing list > openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org > > http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org >
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