Hi Ian, In NZ we use the NZMT<http://edit.nzmt.org.nz/> which is based on AMT (which is based on dm+d) – the tricky bit is neither of these are part of the SNOMED CT proper in terms of content but they do use SCTIDs and have formal IHTSDO namespace as national extensions. Based on the NZMT we have a Formulary<http://nzformulary.org/?page_id=19> which are all provided through the NZULM<http://nzulm.org.nz/> service. I really think is this the right way to go with medicines although there’s quite a bit of discomfort (among health informaticians / developer community) with the constraints the SNOMED CT way of representation brings (the 7-Boxes) and the fact that content is not harmonised with international edition so comparative studies can be done across different jurisdictions. There is also belief an SPARQL based access (at least as an alternative) to medicines terminology would be a better way. My 2 cents
I’d support adding the means to manage medicinal units (called units of use) at RM level (e.g. as a separate data type). Cheers, -koray From: openEHR-technical [mailto:openehr-technical-boun...@lists.openehr.org] On Behalf Of Ian McNicoll Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2016 8:09 p.m. To: For openEHR technical discussions Subject: Re: UCUM code in body temperature archetype Hi Thomas, In the UK (and ? Aus/NZ), we would not use arbitrary units in UCUM for dose units because the latter are expressed as SNOMED terms, and are used in conjunction with the SNOMED-based dm+d (or AMT) drug dictionary to compute actual doses/amounts where possible. e.g. 318421004 | Atenolol 100mg tablets | via dm+d allows us to infer that 1 tab (in this case) = 100mg http://dmd.medicines.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?VMP=318421004&toc=nofloat and allows us to do maximum daily dose calculation, at least against a defined subset of such 'dose units'. in other cases the dose unit strength will be defined as part of the medication order - we have a 'Strength' element in the medication order archetype for just such a purpose. I don't think we need to be able to define the unit strength as part of the quantity datatype. Ian Dr Ian McNicoll mobile +44 (0)775 209 7859 office +44 (0)1536 414994 skype: ianmcnicoll email: i...@freshehr.com<mailto:i...@freshehr.com> twitter: @ianmcnicoll [https://docs.google.com/uc?id=0BzLo3mNUvbAjT2R5Sm1DdFZYTU0&export=download] Co-Chair, openEHR Foundation ian.mcnic...@openehr.org<mailto:ian.mcnic...@openehr.org> Director, freshEHR Clinical Informatics Ltd. Director, HANDIHealth CIC Hon. Senior Research Associate, CHIME, UCL On 19 May 2016 at 08:24, Thomas Beale <thomas.be...@openehr.org<mailto:thomas.be...@openehr.org>> wrote: Hi Gerard, they actually could be, but whenever this discussion comes up, no-one proposes it. I'm not sure if I would either, because these arbitrary units are still not computable in general, but 'dose units' can be made computable but only with some extra data fields, i.e. you need both the quantity of dose in 1 tablet/capsule etc, and also number of tablet/capsule etc. So the structural model is different anyway. I think the other problem with using UCUM arbitrary units is that people / orgs want to control the names of medicinal delivery products ('tablet' etc) in a terminology, which is reasonable, but doesn't fit so well with UCUM. - thomas On 19/05/2016 08:11, "Gerard Freriks (privé)" wrote: Thomas, All are Units of a different kind. SI defines: Units of Measure, and Units of Quantity in the scientific domain. There are also Units of Time: minute, hour, etc. When I think of tablets, capsule, etc. we will call these Units of Medicinal Product Dose. Isn’t in UCUM this an example of Arbitrary Units? 3.2 ARBITRARY UNITS §24 arbitrary units ■1 Arbitrary or procedure defined units are units whose meaning entirely depends on the measurement procedure (assay). These units have no general meaning in relation with any other unit in the SI. Therefore those arbitrary semantic entities are called arbitrary units, as opposed to proper units. The set of arbitrary units is denoted A, where A∩ U = {}. ■2 An arbitrary unit has no further definition in the semantic framework of The Unified Code for Units of Measure ■3 Arbitrary units are not “of any specific dimension” and are not “commensurable with” any other unit. Until version 1.6 The Unified Code for Units of Measure has dealt with arbitrary units as dimensionless, but as an effect the semantics of The Unified Code for Units of Measure made all arbitrary units commensurable. Since version 1.7 of The Unified Code for Units of Measure it is no longer possible to convert or compare arbitrary units with any other arbitrary unit. §25 operations on arbitrary units ■1 Any term involving arbitrary units, is itself an arbitrary unit and is not comparable with any other arbitrary unit or term. §26 definition of arbitrary units ■1 Arbitrary units are marked in the definition tables for unit atoms by a bullet (‘•’) in the column titled “value” and a bullet in the column titled “definition”. Gerard Freriks +31 620347088<tel:%2B31%20620347088> gf...@luna.nl<mailto:gf...@luna.nl> _______________________________________________ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org<mailto:openEHR-technical@lists.openehr.org> http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org
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