Mario, I would really love to agree with you but then sadly we'd both be wrong.
But thanks for not sending this email just to me "offline" for a change (and for being far more polite)... > On 14 Jun 2016, at 21:05, Mario Torre <neugens.limasoftw...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 12:25 PM, Robert Krüger > <krueger@lesspain.software> wrote: >> Only regarding the net loss for the community: There are not many places >> where people trying to defend (and make a living off) Java as a viable >> desktop technology can try to get information from Oracle and the questions >> he asks are also the ones we (as an ISV with a Java-based product) would >> ask, so I do regard them as valuable. >> >> Having said that, I understand, however that those things will never get an >> answer here (never have in the past, having asked such questions myself). >> >> Just writing that so Felix does not feel that he's alone with his concerns >> and to add another data point on the Oracle radar that Houston, we do have >> a real problem here and quite a few frustrated Java advocates. > > Eh, I thought this thread was finally over... > > This mailing list is definitely not the place to discuss such things. > > Discussing Oracle plans is something only Oracle can do, so asking > about those on a development mailing lists doesn't work out. > > As for more general things, even including adoption of the technology, > that may be more or less related to actual development, there are > other, better, places, for example FOSDEM and JavaOne are just two of > the various conferences that generated great and very useful deal of > discussions over the years. > > If you care about participating in a constructive manner, you should > check those out, really. There are other channels, too. For instance, > the Adoption Group is a great place to start asking questions. No, not > questions like what Oracle is planning to do with XXX, you won't find > answer for those there, but you'll be directed in how to contribute, > and contribution means also discussing in a constructive manner (this > can also have the form harsh criticism at times, btw, as long as is > not gratuitous). > > That said, it has happened in the past, and will certainly happen in > the future, that some questions that touch areas perhaps less round > regarding the actual development like interest is specific means of > integrations or specific issues about adoption, etc... find a place of > discussion here. This is not how generally works, because this is > about development, but it's understandable in a living Community to > also take *some* discussion at that level. > > The problem here is another one. First, insisting when somebody have > been asked, politely, to stop, and the second and most important is > the manner of presenting ones idea, by hijacking a purely development > oriented thread with random and totally unclear questions, attempted > sarcasm and just lots of negativity. A thread, btw, that asked the > Community suggestions how to proceed regarding the removal of rather > unused code, so instead of having a constructive participation in a > technically oriented thread, the thread was hijacked with harsh > resentment both on and especially off-list resulting in just a missed > opportunity if you ask me. > > Just to conclude, there are just too many layers before our voices can > be heard by who makes decision, if we start off by screaming chances > are that our messages will never go through, instead ranting and > offending only has the effect of lowering ones credibility, so if you > fall on this side, even with the best intentions, your "contributions" > will likely end up nowhere. > > Please, let's try to be constructive, there is a place and a time for > everything. > > Cheers, > Mario > > -- > pgp key: http://subkeys.pgp.net/ PGP Key ID: 80F240CF > Fingerprint: BA39 9666 94EC 8B73 27FA FC7C 4086 63E3 80F2 40CF > > Java Champion - Blog: http://neugens.wordpress.com - Twitter: @neugens > Proud GNU Classpath developer: http://www.classpath.org/ > OpenJDK: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/caciocavallo/ > > Please, support open standards: > http://endsoftpatents.org/
