Thanks Robert - much appreciated. Just be careful, you may soon be labelled a spammer, get threatened with being banned from this list and also expect random creeps to send you private (cowardly) "offline" insults.
But, don't worry, I am well aware of the *massive* number of poor believers in JavaFX out there who can get nothing but intimidation out of Oracle. I am just the one who put my hand up to say what everyone else is thinking simply because their lame efforts to "dispose" of me just make me chuckle... P.S. I am willing to bet this post will "magically" not make it into the list somehow... But you will at least get it. So much for "open" JFX! Blessings, Felix > On 14 Jun 2016, at 20:25, Robert Krüger <krueger@lesspain.software> wrote: > > Only regarding the net loss for the community: There are not many places > where people trying to defend (and make a living off) Java as a viable > desktop technology can try to get information from Oracle and the questions > he asks are also the ones we (as an ISV with a Java-based product) would ask, > so I do regard them as valuable. > > Having said that, I understand, however that those things will never get an > answer here (never have in the past, having asked such questions myself). > > Just writing that so Felix does not feel that he's alone with his concerns > and to add another data point on the Oracle radar that Houston, we do have a > real problem here and quite a few frustrated Java advocates. > > Over and out. > > Robert > >> On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 4:26 PM, dalibor topic <dalibor.to...@oracle.com> >> wrote: >>> On 13.06.2016 15:02, Felix Bembrick wrote: >>> I am one of the most vocal, passionate and positive advocates for OpenJFX >>> and JavaFX. >> >> Felix, >> >> That may very well be the case, in your opinion, but this mailing list is >> not a forum for advocacy. It is for technical discussions. >> >> Whether you are or you are not an advocate for something or other is not >> relevant on this mailing list. Maybe there is some other forum where people >> who are advocates for things meet and have vocal and passionate discussions >> with each other. In any case, this mailing list is not it, because what you >> are or what you aren't is not a technical subject to begin with. >> >> Unless you are a robot, of course. But in that case, this mailing list would >> still be the wrong forum ... >> >> Please, hold off on posting off-topic posts to this list for a week or two. >> >> If for some reason you feel the need to continue to spam this mailing list >> with off-topic posts, as you have done so far, despite being asked to stop >> both on and off-list, then I trust that the mailing list administrator could >> take care of this problem for all of us. >> >> cheers, >> dalibor topic >> >> >>>> On 13 Jun 2016, at 22:45, dalibor topic <dalibor.to...@oracle.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Felix, >>>> >>>> This is an open source Project's mailing list, specifically for technical >>>> discussions of that Project's development. It's not an 'open' forum >>>> suitable for discussion of other issues. >>>> >>>> Removing participants that continue to abuse the privilege of being on an >>>> open source project's mailing list is a useful tool to deal with >>>> individuals which contribute negatively to a project, if they don't seem >>>> to be able to change their act. >>>> >>>> cheers, >>>> dalibor topic >>>> >>>>> On 13.06.2016 14:11, Felix Bembrick wrote: >>>>> Dear Dalibor, >>>>> >>>>> "This mailing list is the not the right forum for discussions of >>>>> Oracle's products. This mailing list is for OpenJFX development, >>>>> specifically." >>>>> >>>>> Read that again. Thank you for giving me the clear answer you promised! >>>>> >>>>> And thanks for the warning in case I accidentally start "spamming". But >>>>> surely you wouldn't remove anyone from an "open" forum would you? >>>>> >>>>> Blessings, >>>>> >>>>> Felix >>>>> >>>>> On 13 Jun 2016, at 21:17, dalibor topic <dalibor.to...@oracle.com >>>>> <mailto:dalibor.to...@oracle.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Felix, >>>>>> >>>>>> if you'd like to ask questions about Oracle's products, please do so >>>>>> at https://community.oracle.com/welcome . >>>>>> >>>>>> This mailing list is the not the right forum for discussions of >>>>>> Oracle's products. This mailing list is for OpenJFX development, >>>>>> specifically. >>>>>> >>>>>> On a side note, spamming this list with off-topic posts could result >>>>>> in removal from it without further warning. >>>>>> >>>>>> cheers, >>>>>> dalibor topic >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 13.06.2016 12:37, Felix Bembrick wrote: >>>>>>> Thanks you most sincerely Dalibor for that very direct response. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Only... it wasn't really, was it? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You "believe I am entitled to a clear answer to my question". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Great! */So why have you still not answered it?/* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Let me put it another way */so as there can be no possible room for any >>>>>>> further confusion (hopefully)/*. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> */COULD YOU PLEASE DETAIL EXACTLY WHERE JAVAFX IS USED IN EITHER >>>>>>> PRODUCTS USED INTERNALLY BY ORACLE OR IN COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS WHICH >>>>>>> ORACLE MARKETS?/* >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Now, please give me the "clear answer" that I "am entitled to" (Your >>>>>>> words, not mine). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> (Given that we now know that usage of JavaFX within JMX is about to be >>>>>>> abandoned, and there may be a tiny fraction of JMC that is still gasping >>>>>>> for air written using JavaFX, but knowing how */incredibly >>>>>>> enthusiastically Oracle is advancing JavaFX/*, I *know* there must be >>>>>>> hundreds more examples and I am sure we would all love to hear about >>>>>>> them). That would give us all a lot more faith in JavaFX. I am sure you >>>>>>> want that don't you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See - no mention of age of participants, telephony equipment or career >>>>>>> plans! Just JMX and a lot about OpenJFX! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Am I *still* in the wrong forum? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All my blessings, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Felix >>>>>>> >>>>>>> P.S. What is this "bitterness" that you speak of? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 13 June 2016 at 19:55, dalibor topic <dalibor.to...@oracle.com >>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.to...@oracle.com> >>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.to...@oracle.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Felix, I believe that you are entitled to a clear answer to your >>>>>>> question: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes, I have considered a career in politics. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That being said, I would kindly suggest that you stop trying to >>>>>>> divert[0] technical discussions in this community with off-topic >>>>>>> posts, such as your contributions to this thread so far, where you >>>>>>> attempted to discuss : >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * the age of discussion participants, >>>>>>> * their telephony equipment and >>>>>>> * career plans, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> none of which have anything to do with JMX or OpenJFX. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Instead, you should consider unsubscribing from this mailing list >>>>>>> for a week or two, in order to get clarity in what capacity, if any, >>>>>>> you'd like to positively contribute to ongoing OpenJFX development. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As it stands, your current mode of participation on this mailing >>>>>>> list is a net loss for this community, and apparently, for yourself >>>>>>> as well, judging by what seems to be an increasing amount of >>>>>>> bitterness in your posts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can change that. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All the best, >>>>>>> Dalibor Topic >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [0] https://joeyh.name/blog/entry/thread_patterns/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10.06.2016 15:29, Felix Bembrick wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Dalibor, please forgive me for assuming that Oracle had access >>>>>>> to an English language parser. I could translate my original >>>>>>> question into Klingon and resubmit if that would help. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And thanks so much for pointing out to me that this forum is >>>>>>> devoted to "ongoing OpenJFX development". Clearly I was under >>>>>>> the misapprehension that it was about unicorns, angels and aliens. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, the word "ongoing" probably could do with some >>>>>>> clarification. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh, and I don't actually *need* to find a forum to discuss >>>>>>> telephony equipment used by other organisations because such >>>>>>> information is transparent and clearly indicates belief and >>>>>>> commitment to their own technologies. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just out of interest, have you ever considered a career in >>>>>>> politics? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And thanks for finally answering my question (even if it was >>>>>>> accidental)... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10 Jun 2016, at 22:59, Dalibor Topic >>>>>>> <dalibor.to...@oracle.com >>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.to...@oracle.com> <mailto:dalibor.to...@oracle.com>> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Felix, unfortunately your original question was not >>>>>>> parse-able. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Before you go on prolonging this thread with more of that, >>>>>>> please consider that this mailing list is for discussion of >>>>>>> ongoing OpenJFX development. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If instead you would prefer to discuss something else, >>>>>>> please do try to find a more suitable venue for discussion >>>>>>> of such interests. While I can't help you find an adequate >>>>>>> forum to discuss telephony equipment used by employees of >>>>>>> other organizations, I hope that you will be able to find a >>>>>>> better place to do so in the future. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Dalibor Topic >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product >>>>>>> Manager >>>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214><tel:+494089091214 >>>>>>> <tel:%2B494089091214>> | Mobile: +491737185961 >>>>>>> <tel:%2B491737185961> >>>>>>> <tel:+491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG >>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. >>>>>>> 30143697 >>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val >>>>>>> Maher >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to >>>>>>> developing >>>>>>> practices and products that help protect the environment >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10.06.2016, at 12:46, Felix Bembrick >>>>>>> <felix.bembr...@gmail.com >>>>>>> <mailto:felix.bembr...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> <mailto:felix.bembr...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am taking that as a "yes" answer to my original >>>>>>> question. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On a completely unrelated topic, do Microsoft employees >>>>>>> all have Macs on their desktops and carry iPhones and >>>>>>> iPads around? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> No? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Well I bet Apple employees do! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 10 Jun 2016, at 20:01, dalibor topic >>>>>>> <dalibor.to...@oracle.com >>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.to...@oracle.com> >>>>>>> <mailto:dalibor.to...@oracle.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I suspect that particular plugin is extremely rarely >>>>>>> used, judging by >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://github.com/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=%22javafx-mx.jar%22&type=Code&ref=searchresults >>>>>>> showing 0 results. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> cheers, >>>>>>> dalibor topic >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 09.06.2016 00:31, Kevin Rushforth wrote: >>>>>>> As some of you may be aware, JavaFX has shipped >>>>>>> a JMX plugin as a >>>>>>> separate jar file along with the JDK (not part >>>>>>> of the JRE) in >>>>>>> <JDK>/lib/javafx-mx.jar. Development on this >>>>>>> plugin stopped prior to JDK >>>>>>> 8 being shipped, although we continued to ship >>>>>>> javafx-mx.jar in JDK 8. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Are there any developers that still use this? We >>>>>>> haven't seen any bug >>>>>>> reports or had questions on it for quite a >>>>>>> while. I note that this jar >>>>>>> file has been gone from JDK 9 ea since build 111 >>>>>>> and we are trying to >>>>>>> determine how best to address this in JDK 9. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Our options are: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1) Remove it entirely and drop this tooling >>>>>>> support >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2) Continue to ship it as a legacy jar file, >>>>>>> meaning that any use would >>>>>>> require command line qualified exports to be >>>>>>> added since it uses >>>>>>> internal packages >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3) Turn it into a proper JDK-only module, >>>>>>> javafx.jmx; it would not be >>>>>>> one of the default modules, so it would need to >>>>>>> be added with -addmods. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Obviously #1 would be the least amount of work, >>>>>>> and given that it isn't >>>>>>> being actively maintained, might be a viable >>>>>>> solution. If we do need to >>>>>>> keep it, then #2 might be less effort than #3, >>>>>>> while still preserving >>>>>>> the ability for developers to use it. This is >>>>>>> only used for tooling, so >>>>>>> requiring qualified exports, as is done for >>>>>>> Robot and >>>>>>> PerformanceTracker, is not a problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Separately, if we don't remove it for JDK 9, we >>>>>>> probably will deprecate >>>>>>> it with the intention to remove it in a future >>>>>>> release. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- Kevin >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal >>>>>>> Product Manager >>>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214> >>>>>>> <tel:+494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214>> | Mobile: >>>>>>> +491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961> >>>>>>> <tel:+491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | >>>>>>> 22761 Hamburg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG >>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer >>>>>>> Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan >>>>>>> Schultheiss, Val Maher >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is >>>>>>> committed to developing >>>>>>> practices and products that help protect the >>>>>>> environment >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager >>>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:%2B494089091214> <tel:+494089091214 >>>>>>> <tel:%2B494089091214>> | Mobile: +491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961> >>>>>>> <tel:+491737185961 <tel:%2B491737185961>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG >>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing >>>>>>> practices and products that help protect the environment >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager >>>>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:+494089091214> | Mobile: +491737185961 >>>>>> <tel:+491737185961> >>>>>> >>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg >>>>>> >>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG >>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>>>> >>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing >>>>>> practices and products that help protect the environment >>>> >>>> -- >>>> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager >>>> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:+494089091214> | Mobile: +491737185961 >>>> <tel:+491737185961> >>>> >>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg >>>> >>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG >>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>> >>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher >>>> >>>> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing >>>> practices and products that help protect the environment >> >> -- >> <http://www.oracle.com> Dalibor Topic | Principal Product Manager >> Phone: +494089091214 <tel:+494089091214> | Mobile: +491737185961 >> <tel:+491737185961> >> >> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG | Kühnehöfe 5 | 22761 Hamburg >> >> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG >> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >> >> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Jan Schultheiss, Val Maher >> >> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing >> practices and products that help protect the environment > > > > -- > Robert Krüger > Managing Partner > Lesspain GmbH & Co. KG > > http://lesspain.software > http://kyno.software
