On 10/12/2016 11:59 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
Qiming Teng wrote:
On Tue, Oct 11, 2016 at 10:39:11PM -0500, Michał Jastrzębski wrote:
One of reasons we created PTG in the first place is that Summit became
big and expensive, and project developers had harder and harder time
attending it due to budget issues.

So a trip to PTG is really cheaper than summit? Is the PTG one
sponsored by someone?

PTGs happen in more cost-effective locations, airport hubs with cheaper
hotels, which should lower the cost of attending. Yes, I'm pretty sure
traveling to Atlanta downtown for a week will be cheaper than going to
Barcelona, Boston or Sydney downtown for a week.

A friendly reminder that there is a world outside of the US ;) </kidding>

Yes, I understand that your statement is true for most of the developers, but for EU folks the next year offers 4 overseas travels. I'm pretty sure most of us will only make to either PTG or the summit. And it's not only budget: my family said firm NO to me going to both events, for example :)

And while PTG will surely be cheaper than the Summit, the Summit is not going away (for marketing, management, few developer representatives), so the total expense is unlikely to drop IMO.

PTG becomes very important for project team, summit arguably will
become less important as many of developers will be able to afford
only PTGs.

Summit is less (or just NOT) important to developers, emm ... that is
true if 1) the team knows exactly what users/ops want so they don't even
bother interact with them, just focus on getting things done; 2) the
person who approves your trip request also believes so.

If we say that "Don't expect Ops at PTG", that means
OpenStack dev community will become even more disconnected from Ops

Wasn't that part of the plan? [...]

Yes, the plan is (amongst other things) to make sure that upstream
developers are available to interact with users (operators, but also app
developers...) during the very week where *all* our community gets
together (the OpenStack Summit). Currently we try to get things done at
the same time, which results in hard choices between listening and
doing. By clearly setting out separate times for each activity, we make
sure we stay focused.

Sorry, but to me it's extremely unrealistic to expect a big number of developers on the Summit any more. Sending folks to both events doubles the travel budget, and I know that many companies have struggles with sending people to one event already.

For an ops-focused team like Kolla, I'd argue that participating to
OpenStack Summits (and Ops midcycles, to be honest) is essential. That
doesn't mean that everyone has to go to every single event, but the
Kolla team should definitely self-organize to make sure that enough
Kolla people go to those events to close the feedback loop. The PTG is
not where the feedback loop is closed. It's a venue for the *team* to
get together and build the shared understandings (priorities,
assignment, bootstrap work) necessary to a successful development cycle
(some teams need that more than others, so YMMV).

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