On 12 October 2016 at 08:53, John Davidge <john.davi...@rackspace.com> wrote:
> On 10/12/16, 11:18 AM, Dmitry Tantsur wrote:
>>On 10/12/2016 11:59 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>>> PTGs happen in more cost-effective locations, airport hubs with cheaper
>>> hotels, which should lower the cost of attending. Yes, I'm pretty sure
>>> traveling to Atlanta downtown for a week will be cheaper than going to
>>> Barcelona, Boston or Sydney downtown for a week.
>>And while PTG will surely be cheaper than the Summit, the Summit is not
>>away (for marketing, management, few developer representatives), so the
>>expense is unlikely to drop IMO.
> Yes, I've been unsure about the cost justification for the PTG too.
> Hosting in a less expensive city will probably result in the PTG being
> slightly cheaper to attend than the Summit, but with ops feedback and so
> many other important activities missing, many developers will need to
> attend both the Summit and the PTG to be fully involved.
> Cost of PTG < Cost of Summit
> But:
> (Cost of PTG + Cost of Summit) > Cost of Summit
> Also, unless I've missed something, we still don't know the registration
> fees for the PTG and the new Summit do we? Last I remember, there was talk
> of a registration fee for the PTG, and then a Summit discount for PTG
> attendees[1]. Is that still the plan?
> Surely the PTG will need to be free to attend, otherwise isn't it better
> for project teams to simply shift our existing mid-cycles to the PTG
> timeframe with an altered focus to save money? Genuine question.

So if PTG is meant to just "hang out with your dev team", that's midcycle.
Problem is:

Cost of PTG >> Cost of midcycle

In Kolla we scheduled our midcycle usually in relatively small towns that are
convenient for core team locations. That lowered cost of midcycle attendance
for our team (and everyone else, because while Atlanta is cheaper than Boston,
Greenville SC is much cheaper than Atlanta;)).

Even with this, midcycle attendance was much lower than summits, which
is expected.
I assumed that PTG is replacement for design summit, ops summit and pretty much
all the summit things that usually happens in "second hotel":). If
that is not the case,
I'm afraid that PTG might end up being more expensive midcycle, ergo
with even lower
attendance, ergo pretty much pointless for projects other than Nova or
Neutron, which
attracts more people to midcycles.

Alternative to this would be to openly say that PTG is a replacement
for midcycles, just coordinated,
summit is still summit (with design part to it), and ops summit might
be part of PTG just as well.

>>> Yes, the plan is (amongst other things) to make sure that upstream
>>> developers are available to interact with users (operators, but also app
>>> developers...) during the very week where *all* our community gets
>>> together (the OpenStack Summit). Currently we try to get things done at
>>> the same time, which results in hard choices between listening and
>>> doing. By clearly setting out separate times for each activity, we make
>>> sure we stay focused.
>>Sorry, but to me it's extremely unrealistic to expect a big number of
>>on the Summit any more. Sending folks to both events doubles the travel
>>and I know that many companies have struggles with sending people to one
> I know a lot of people share this concern. It can already be hard enough
> to justify travel twice a year to an event comprising 100% of the
> community's activities. Splitting that 100% across two separate events of
> ~50% each, twice each per year, is going to make it much harder. I fear
> that some developers will be unable to attend any events at all, as
> neither the PTG or the new Summit will be as important as the combined
> Summit has been until now.
> I'm looking forward to hopefully hearing a lot more details about the PTG
> during the summit.
> Thanks,
> John
> [1] https://www.openstack.org/ptg/ptgfaq/
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