Argh, give up! We've argued propertytag to death, we agreed that the solution
is to ensure the documentation is clear. Enough already!
I'm reminded of the boy who cried wolf, to be honest. If someone keeps
repeating the same thing over and over again (that others disagree with), then
when that person actually says something insightful that's worth listening to,
people will assume it's the same old nonsense just out of sheer habit.
Quoting Patrick Lightbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Agreed! But please don't loose site of the ww:property tag arguments
> either.
> It really is doing two jobs and the only reason we like it (I like it too!)
> and it makes sense (makes sense to me!) is because we've grown accustomed
> to
> it. But you cannot deny it is doing two different jobs: push and print. An
> intuitive design would be to have two different tags. It's what is logical
> for the majority of people not familiar with WebWork. So a compromise would
> be to keep ww:property but add ww:push and ww:print.
>
> -Pat
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Hani Suleiman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 2:09 PM
> Subject: [OS-webwork] ui:hidden and ui:submit
>
>
> > Actually, while I've pretty much agreed with Maurice on every single
> point
> he's
> > made, this is one case where I agree that ui:hidden and ui:submit would
> make
> > sense.
> >
> > Webwork is proud of the fact that it's so skinnable. The fact that you
> can
> > easily swap in templates for any form elements is tremendously useful.
> Picture
> > a 'debug' skin, which would actually display the hidden tags. Now isn't
> that so
> > much nicer than having to trawl through a source view of your html?
> >
> > The same argument can be made for submit buttons/imgs, I think. It's just
> > pleasant being able to swap so easily, it'd give that exact warm fuzzy
> feeling
> > I get when I trivially change one line somewhere to make all my
> textfields
> have
> > a cute question mark next to them that points to live help, or define
> > a 'required' parameter that automatically highlights them, etc etc.
> >
> > Quoting Patrick Lightbody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > > Anders has had a good point all along. <ww:property/> is really doing
> two
> > > jobs: push and print. We are all OK with it because we're used to it.
> But
> > > his post below of course looks completely silly... why would you want
> > > <ww:property/> to do push, print, AND include. That's just silly,
> right?
> > >
> > > Well, now move your perspective to someone who hasn't used
> <ww:property/>
> > > for 2 years. Move it to a WebWork newbie, but someone who is still
> smart
> > > and
> > > can see the obvious misnomer of "property". Try real hard before you
> > > dismiss
> > > it. Open your mind up. And then remember you can still have property
> for
> > > compatibility and for people that are used to it, but <ww:print
> > > property="foo"/> and <ww:push property="foo">...</ww:push> would make a
> > > hell
> > > of a lot more sense.
> > >
> > > OK, now let's think about <ui:hidden/>, another good idea shot down.
> > > Imagine
> > > you are new to webwork, but you're a good developer that has never read
> > > much
> > > documentation, since most good APIs just work like they should. So you
> > > wrote
> > > a JSP with <ui:textfield/> and <ui:select/>, and then, since hidden is
> just
> > > another type of input, you decided to write <ui:hidden/>, since that
> makes
> > > sense (I mean, you've got a UI tag for everything else). Again, try
> hard
> > > before you dismiss it. Don't say, "well hidden doesn't need error
> messages,
> > > so we shouldn't include it". Open your mind up -- try to be THAT person
> > > described above. It's a matter of doing what a smart newbie would most
> > > likely do. I know I would. I just had to add a hidden tag to a JSP page
> > > that
> > > used exclusively JSP taglibs (WebWork's UI tags as well as some custom
> > > helpers). But since there was no hidden, I crapped up the JSP with
> HTML.
> > > Does that really make sense -- especially for an incredibly small
> addition
> > > that completes the set of mapping from WebWork tags to HTML <input>
> tags?
> > >
> > > -Pat
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Hani Suleiman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 1:29 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [OS-webwork] more flexible property tag
> > >
> > >
> > > > Again, that age old question....why? Why this hatred of the unloved
> and
> > > > unappreciate if/iterator tags? What have they ever done to you?
> > > >
> > > > Quoting boxed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >
> > > > > I've had a most enlightening conversation on irc recently. A friend
> of
> > > mine
> > > > > pointed out that property tag and iterator tag can be merged:
> > > > > <ww:property value="foo">
> > > > > do something
> > > > > </ww:property>
> > > > >
> > > > > can iterate through the values if foo is a collection. Furthermore,
> we
> > > can
> > > > > merge the property tag and the if tag:
> > > > > <ww:property value="foo">
> > > > > do something
> > > > > </ww:property>
> > > > >
> > > > > will "do something" if foo evaluates to not null (and if it's a
> boolean
> > > > > type
> > > > > to true). But wait! There's more! We can also merge it with the
> include
> > > > > tag:
> > > > > <ww:property value="'foo.jsp'"/>
> > > > > can do an include if "foo.jsp" exists. We can also make it handle
> > > actions:
> > > > > <ww:property value="'foo.action'"/>
> > > > > can do just what <ww:action value="'foo.action'"/> does today if
> the
> > > string
> > > > > evaluates to an action!
> > > > >
> > > > > You wanted a flexible property tag mike ("The property tag is
> flexible
> > > -
> > > > > not
> > > > > confusing!" as you so nicely put it). Time you show that you mean
> it.
> > > > >
> > > > > // Anders Hovmöller
> > > > >
> > > > > PS. Yes it's sarcasm, but note that the first two examples are real
> > > world
> > > > > example from my friends version of the property tag for his
> framework
> > > DS.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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