> So, my conclusions are:
>
> - Ironflare/Evermind has not hired testers or other staff as promised 6
> months ago. They don't have to, because the user community does all of
> that (and more) for them.
Hiring testers for the sake of hiring testers (not a knock on testers)is hit-and-miss
anyway, but
suppose they did hire testers? I suspect that many folks on this list would still test
orion just
as rigourously as they do now.
I get paid regardless of whether I test Orion. I test Orion because I like it. If, by
testing
Orion I can get a better product, then I will test Orion. I don't HAVE to use Orion. I
WANT to use
it.
Do you like the product?
>
> - Ironflare is in it, at least in part, for big money; otherwise, they
> would have collected from the production license violator.
>
Every company is in it, to one degree or another, for the money. My consultancy is in
it for the
money - but we started it because we wanted to do our work OUR way which we now do.
The money just
happens to go along with it. Ironflare wanted to write an application server and that
was only
possible, in their view, by starting their own company. They need money, too, as Karl
explained.
If Oracle came to my company and said "Hey, we'd like to license some of that software
you've been
writing for a nice sum of cash" - I would say "You Bet!". What's wrong with that?
Nothing!
> - Ironflare will leave you hanging if you report license violations.
>
When you reported the license violations, what was Ironflare supposed to do? I don't
know the
nature of how you found the violations or who is doing the violating, but it seems to
me that once
you report it, then you would be finished with your task.
> - Ironflare may be censoring messages.
>
You lay out your facts above - but given other experiences with this list (I briefly
mention mine
in a previous posting that quite frankly hasn't come through yet) I can't draw the same
conclusions. Sorry.
> I can't lay it out much better than that.
>
> So, attack one of these facts and quit challenging my mental condition.
>
> >From the asylum,
> Jay
>
>
--- Johan Fredriksson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is your point?
>
> Johan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jay Armstrong" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:51 PM
> Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
>
>
> > >
> > >We've all tried presenting the facts to you regarding the Oracle deal,
> but
> > >all we seem to be getting in respose is a descent into your own personal
> > >madness. How about summing up the problems you have in a few short lines
> > >that won't cause cynics like me to laugh or respond so unpleasantly?
> > >
> > >Hani
> > >
> >
> > In spite of your personal attacks on my mental condition, I will try one
> > more time to deal with facts and give yet another summary.
> >
> > Before doing so, let me state that yesterday I made a third attempt to
> post
> > my response to Karl. I also sent it directly to Mike Cannon-Brookes
> asking
> > him to post it. So, three times now I've tried. Let me ask you and the
> > group, how many times must I try and fail to post that message before you
> > will believe that it's getting blocked? Seriously, just pick a number and
> > I'll try that many times.
> >
> > Here's the summary:
> > - 6 months ago (Dec 7), Karl stated, "resources will initially be spent
> > more on building the organization and hiring the right people than would
> be
> > necessary if we didn't make the expansion."
> >
> > - Since then, there have been several threads about lack of support:
> > "www.orionserver.com down again" (Dec 13), "What's going on with Orion?"
> > (Jan 4), "Is the List alive?" (Jan 4), "Any news from Orion yet??" (Jan
> > 15), "Orion Team Needs New List Software" (Mar 14), "Impossible getting
> the
> > attention of the orion (support) team. Are they still around?" (Mar 19),
> > "Is the list dead?" (Apr 25)
> >
> > - Since then, "hiring the right people" has not occurred.
> >
> > - On Apr 18, Randy Kemp suggested Ironflare contact MySQL, which is also
> in
> > Sweden ("A Swedish Idea"). Like me, Randy was ridiculed by people, like
> > Hani, who used terms such as "bizarre", "this whole ridiculous discussion"
> > and "fairy tale".
> >
> > - On Apr 23, I reported a production licensing violation directly to Karl.
> > He did not respond.
> >
> > - On Apr 24, I reported the production licensing violation to
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] Karl responded, stating, "We'll check into it."
> >
> > - On May 8, I asked Karl for a status on the licensing violation, but to
> > date, have gotten no response.
> >
> > - On Jun 6, Bryan Young posted the following to this group: "I just read
> > about Orion being used as the base code for their 9i app server."
> >
> > - On Jun 6, I responded, refering to the "A Swedish Idea" thread and
> > stating, "I TOLD YOU SO." I also stated, "I admire the way they've
> managed
> > to build a decent product without having to hire testers."
> >
> > - On Jun 7, the day after my post, Karl responded via orion-interest,
> > stating, "We've never been in it for the money, but that doesn't mean that
> > you can survive in this society forever without having any money."
> >
> > - On Jun 7, I tried to respond to Karl via orion-interest.
> >
> > - On Jun 8, I made my second attempt to respond to Karl via
> orion-interest.
> >
> > - On Jun 10, I made my third attempt to respond to Karl via
> orion-interest.
> >
> > - I have tried three times to post my response to Karl, and been called
> > mentally unstable for suggesting that they might be blocking negative
> > comments.
> >
> > - Neither Ironflare nor Oracle have ever really "announced" their
> > relationship. It's not "announced" at www.orionserver.com. Go to
> > http://www.oracle.com and look at their JavaOne pages and search for
> > "Orion". It's buried in the user manual, but not "announced".
> >
> > So, my conclusions are:
> >
> > - Ironflare/Evermind has not hired testers or other staff as promised 6
> > months ago. They don't have to, because the user community does all of
> > that (and more) for them.
> >
> > - Ironflare is in it, at least in part, for big money; otherwise, they
> > would have collected from the production license violator.
> >
> > - Ironflare will leave you hanging if you report license violations.
> >
> > - Ironflare may be censoring messages.
> >
> > I can't lay it out much better than that.
> >
> > So, attack one of these facts and quit challenging my mental condition.
> >
> > >From the asylum,
> > Jay
> >
> >
>
>
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