Depending on the country, enforcing a license can be a problem. In the US,
all the licensor need do is contact the isp which is hosting the site, and
notify them of a copywrite violation. The law is pretty clear about that
one. The isp has to take them down.
In other countries, they may have no protection or they may have to take
civil action. If the civil action doesn't envolve much of a penalty, what's
the point?
So there could be several reasons why they haven't taken action, and usually
these reasons involve money. So as far as I am concerned, its their own
business. If they were smart, they would post a "reward" for reporting
licensing violations.
Oracle has a history of licensing good software, unlike M$ who has a history
of buying or copying good software. We should count ourselves as lucky that
Oracle licensed Orion. Now they should have the money to expand their
operation. This is important to understand. If there were 100 licensees of
orion, that would be only $150,000 of revenue. If there were 1000 licensees
of orion, that would be much more, but I dont' think they have that many
licensees. Even with a budget of $1,500,000 per year, that is only enough
for 5-7 employees plus overhead....and they would have to sell 1000 licenses
each year to meet that budget.
I don't know what the deal is with Oracle, but it should be enough for them
to grow beyond 10 people...and this is a GOOD thing for orion licensees.
Regards,
the elephantwalker
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jay Armstrong
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 12:54 PM
To: Orion-Interest
Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
Okay, EW. I'll agree that some things are apparently not getting through.
They can write a great J2EE product, but can't get their list server to
work. My dog at my homework.
Now that I've tried for the third time to post my response to Karl, and
asked for Mike Cannon-Brookes to post it, we'll see if it comes through.
If it ever posts (or I send it to you directly), you will see that I tried
to help Ironflare by reporting a licensing violation. They showed little
interest. The emails were directly to Karl. Other than a "we'll check
into it" (after my second message), I've seen no response. I asked for a
follow up which, again, I sent directly to Karl. I took a huge risk for
them and they left me hanging. Try blaming that on their list server or
having them deny that I informed them. They don't give a damn about $1,500
production licenses because they bagged the elephant (not you, Oracle).
Another point is that Oracle has licensed the world's greatest J2EE
platform from a company that has a handful of employees, no support, little
documentation, no help desk, and cannot make their list server work. Seems
to make perfect sense to everyone except me.
Jay
At 11:05 AM 6/10/01 -0700, you wrote:
>J,
>
>The list is a little broken. Yesterday I sent this email, and it didn't go
>through (see attachement). It could be that some of your emails have not
>gone through because the list is not working properly.
>
>I think it would be better if we graduated to Jives. If anybody knows the
>principals, suggest this alternative to the email list. Its free, and works
>with several free databases.
>
>regards,
>
>the elephantwalker
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jay Armstrong
>Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:36 AM
>To: Orion-Interest
>Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
>
>
>EW,
>
>The message to which you replied has a slightly different title and is from
>my alternate email address ([EMAIL PROTECTED], not [EMAIL PROTECTED]). It
>went through just fine.
>
>After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
>("RE: Oracle deal") also went through fine, but none of them were critical
>of Ironflare. In fact, all of them either told me to shut up (Greg
>Stickley and Hani Suleiman, who described the problem as a "pebble"), were
>complimentary of the deal, and/or tried to change the subject. Seems odd
>to me that not one, single critical comment about the most important
>business deal in Orion Server's history came after mine, unless the thread
>was being censored.
>
>I would point out one of Karl's statements in his reply to me: "The purpose
>of the orion-interest has always been to promote the exchange of
>experiences and knowledge between our users, not as a channel to
>communicate with us."
>
>I interpret the statement above to be a veiled warning that "big brother is
>watching" and not to criticize Ironflare via orion-interest.
>
>Don't you also find it odd that Ironflare did not make this announcement?
>Rather, it came from Bryan Young's discovery after trying oc4j. My guess
>is that Ironflare, possibly under orders from Oracle, wanted to keep this
>quiet and is now attempting damage control.
>
>If it's a list problem, okay, but how can we possibly know? Time will
>tell, though it could also be that open discussions are not and have never
>been allowed in this "interest" group.
>
>Jay
>
>At 04:37 PM 6/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>J,
>>
>>There have been lags and blackholes on the list last week. I suspect this
>is
>>because the two gents have been in San Francisco in the last week, and
have
>>not been unable to keep up the maintenance. Sunday and Monday, and some of
>>Tuesday lastweek there were no messages.
>>
>>Its a list problem...don't blame Orion.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>the elephantwalker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of J Armstrong
>>Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:50 PM
>>To: Orion-Interest
>>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Oracle deal gag
>>
>>
>>Just for fun, try bitching about the original issue.
>>I tried twice (two days ago and one day ago) to
>>respond to Karl Avendal's response to me on this
>>thread and it's not showing up.
>>
>>At 12:48 PM 6/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>>Haha, I know... Hani just said we should bitch so I
>>did :P
>>>
>>>- Phillip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- elephantwalker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> Phil,
>>>>
>>>> Orion also supports do's, even though the latest
>>"draft" doesn't include
>>>> do's (an earlier draft had major sections on do's).
>>Phil, this is a moving
>>>> target, and these guys will fix their ejb 2.0.
>>Please log the references
>>>> issue and bidirectional relations problem with
>>bugzilla, they will fix it.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> the elephantwalker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
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>>a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
>From: "elephantwalker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: orion documentation on oracle now.
>Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 17:14:58 -0700
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
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> charset="Windows-1252"
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>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
>Importance: Normal
>
>Attachment Converted: "d:\eudora\attach\RE Oracle deal gag"
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