Okay, EW. I'll agree that some things are apparently not getting through.
They can write a great J2EE product, but can't get their list server to
work. My dog at my homework.
Now that I've tried for the third time to post my response to Karl, and
asked for Mike Cannon-Brookes to post it, we'll see if it comes through.
If it ever posts (or I send it to you directly), you will see that I tried
to help Ironflare by reporting a licensing violation. They showed little
interest. The emails were directly to Karl. Other than a "we'll check
into it" (after my second message), I've seen no response. I asked for a
follow up which, again, I sent directly to Karl. I took a huge risk for
them and they left me hanging. Try blaming that on their list server or
having them deny that I informed them. They don't give a damn about $1,500
production licenses because they bagged the elephant (not you, Oracle).
Another point is that Oracle has licensed the world's greatest J2EE
platform from a company that has a handful of employees, no support, little
documentation, no help desk, and cannot make their list server work. Seems
to make perfect sense to everyone except me.
Jay
At 11:05 AM 6/10/01 -0700, you wrote:
>J,
>
>The list is a little broken. Yesterday I sent this email, and it didn't go
>through (see attachement). It could be that some of your emails have not
>gone through because the list is not working properly.
>
>I think it would be better if we graduated to Jives. If anybody knows the
>principals, suggest this alternative to the email list. Its free, and works
>with several free databases.
>
>regards,
>
>the elephantwalker
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jay Armstrong
>Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 1:36 AM
>To: Orion-Interest
>Subject: RE: Oracle deal gag
>
>
>EW,
>
>The message to which you replied has a slightly different title and is from
>my alternate email address ([EMAIL PROTECTED], not [EMAIL PROTECTED]). It
>went through just fine.
>
>After my criticism, subsequent messages from others on the original thread
>("RE: Oracle deal") also went through fine, but none of them were critical
>of Ironflare. In fact, all of them either told me to shut up (Greg
>Stickley and Hani Suleiman, who described the problem as a "pebble"), were
>complimentary of the deal, and/or tried to change the subject. Seems odd
>to me that not one, single critical comment about the most important
>business deal in Orion Server's history came after mine, unless the thread
>was being censored.
>
>I would point out one of Karl's statements in his reply to me: "The purpose
>of the orion-interest has always been to promote the exchange of
>experiences and knowledge between our users, not as a channel to
>communicate with us."
>
>I interpret the statement above to be a veiled warning that "big brother is
>watching" and not to criticize Ironflare via orion-interest.
>
>Don't you also find it odd that Ironflare did not make this announcement?
>Rather, it came from Bryan Young's discovery after trying oc4j. My guess
>is that Ironflare, possibly under orders from Oracle, wanted to keep this
>quiet and is now attempting damage control.
>
>If it's a list problem, okay, but how can we possibly know? Time will
>tell, though it could also be that open discussions are not and have never
>been allowed in this "interest" group.
>
>Jay
>
>At 04:37 PM 6/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>J,
>>
>>There have been lags and blackholes on the list last week. I suspect this
>is
>>because the two gents have been in San Francisco in the last week, and have
>>not been unable to keep up the maintenance. Sunday and Monday, and some of
>>Tuesday lastweek there were no messages.
>>
>>Its a list problem...don't blame Orion.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>the elephantwalker
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of J Armstrong
>>Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2001 3:50 PM
>>To: Orion-Interest
>>Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>Subject: Oracle deal gag
>>
>>
>>Just for fun, try bitching about the original issue.
>>I tried twice (two days ago and one day ago) to
>>respond to Karl Avendal's response to me on this
>>thread and it's not showing up.
>>
>>At 12:48 PM 6/9/01 -0700, you wrote:
>>>Haha, I know... Hani just said we should bitch so I
>>did :P
>>>
>>>- Phillip
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--- elephantwalker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> Phil,
>>>>
>>>> Orion also supports do's, even though the latest
>>"draft" doesn't include
>>>> do's (an earlier draft had major sections on do's).
>>Phil, this is a moving
>>>> target, and these guys will fix their ejb 2.0.
>>Please log the references
>>>> issue and bidirectional relations problem with
>>bugzilla, they will fix it.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> the elephantwalker
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________________________
>>>Do You Yahoo!?
>>>Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail -
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>>>a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>>>
>>>
>>
>>__________________________________________________
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>>a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
>>
>>
>>
>
>From: "elephantwalker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Orion-Interest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: orion documentation on oracle now.
>Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2001 17:14:58 -0700
>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain;
> charset="Windows-1252"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400
>Importance: Normal
>
>Attachment Converted: "d:\eudora\attach\RE Oracle deal gag"
>
