Or maybe goal setting is just another gorgeous example of the mystery of self-organisation ?
Those who cannot hear the music think that the dancer is mad... Warm wishes Paul Levy On Monday, 21 October 2013, Harrison Owen wrote: > John I like what you say... and given the (only) two conclusions I have > managed to reach after all these years: A) All systems are open. B) All > systems are self organizing... the devil draws me to a third conclusion. > Goal seeking systems are purely a figment of our imagination created in a > desperate attempt to satisfy our unending (and futile) need for control. > You know the scenario. We (I) created it, We (I) set the goals, We (I) > control... Lovely idea, but it never happened and never will. Of course, > that is all pure speculation and heresy.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > Harrison**** > > ** ** > > Harrison Owen**** > > 7808 River Falls Dr. <x-apple-data-detectors://2>**** > > Potomac, MD 20854 <x-apple-data-detectors://3>**** > > USA**** > > ** ** > > 189 Beaucaire Ave. <x-apple-data-detectors://4> (summer)**** > > Camden, Maine 04843 <x-apple-data-detectors://5>**** > > ** ** > > Phone 301-365-2093**** > > (summer) 207-763-3261**** > > ** ** > > www.openspaceworld.com <http://www.openspaceworld.com%20> **** > > www.ho-image.com <http://www.ho-image.com%20> (Personal Website)**** > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change your options, view the archives of > OSLIST Go to: > http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org**** > > ** ** > > *From:* oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > 'oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org');> [mailto: > oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org <javascript:_e({}, 'cvml', > 'oslist-boun...@lists.openspacetech.org');>] *On Behalf Of *John Watkins > *Sent:* Monday, October 21, 2013 11:19 AM > *To:* World wide Open Space Technology email list > *Subject:* Re: [OSList] The OST Game**** > > ** ** > > I don't think self organizing systems are goal seeking systems. By > definition, goal seeking systems are homeostatic, and not emergent or > transformational. I think self organizing systems are purpose seeking > systems; hence, as Peggy says, always looking for new meanings to emerge in > a dialectic of emergence, but never settling into any one final "eternal > return," like "strange attractors," always wobbling into new versions of > themselves. I think the question of game vs. not game might be solved by > saying emergent self organizing systems are systems at play, "lila" in the > tantric view, "the play of the goddess," indeterminate, recursive, > entangled, confounding traditional goal seeking or linear causal or > probabilistic behavior.**** > > ** ** > > John**** > > ** ** > > On Oct 20, 2013, at 7:43 AM, Peggy Holman wrote:**** > > > > **** > > Great thread!**** > > ** ** > > To Paul's question**** > > what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing behavior?**** > > Harrison referenced one of Kauffman's conditions for self-organizing -- > the search for fitness.**** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > I believe that in human systems, the search for fitness looks like a > search for meaning. **** > > ** ** > > Harrison said:**** > > You don’t have a self without a world, nor do you have a world without > selves. It is not one OR the other, but definitely a both/and. Dialectic, > polar, all at once. Nice I always thought.**** > > **** > > > > **** > > Nice thing about a search for meaning. It can start as a solo act. And > you may pick up friends along the way. Sometimes that evolves into a > movement (Agile, Open Space, etc.). And sometimes it even disappears into a > world view. **** > > > > **** > > Or not.**** > > > Peggy**** > > Sent from my iPad**** > > ** ** > > 425-746-6274**** > > www.peggyholman.com**** > > > On Oct 15, 2013, at 3:59 AM, "Harrison Owen" <hho...@verizon.net> wrote:** > ** > > Dan said: : “what is the goal (if any) of self-organizing behavior?” Good > question indeed. Stuart Kaufmann (Biologist) says that one of the > conditions for self organization is what he calls, “The search for > fitness.” I take this to be a modification of Darwin’s “Survival of the > fittest.” The idea is that self organizing systems engage in a search for > ways to enhance the way they fit with the environment and fit together > internally. Those most fully aligned with the environment, with all their > parts engaged tend to survive. Works for me.**** > > **** > > Harrison**** > > Harrison Owen**< > >
_______________________________________________ OSList mailing list To post send emails to OSList@lists.openspacetech.org To unsubscribe send an email to oslist-le...@lists.openspacetech.org To subscribe or manage your subscription click below: http://lists.openspacetech.org/listinfo.cgi/oslist-openspacetech.org
