very useful, thanks a lot Michel
On Thu, Aug 4, 2016 at 7:05 AM, Frederic Janssens <[email protected]> wrote: > For the general question of the 250 year old battle between revoluton and > reformism, and possiblity or not to escape this dualist perspective; I have > discovered and am now reading Dave Elder-Vass. > > http://www.eldervass.com/publications.htm > > I have not not read enough to know if I agree with everything, but he > seems to have a philosophically/sociologically argued set of concepts that > enable to escape dualism in reasonning about those matters. > Quite compatible with what Michel and Pat try to do. > > I am now reading his last book : > > Elder-Vass, D. (2016). *Profit and Gift in the Digital Economy*, > Cambridge: Cambridge University Press > <http://www.cambridge.org/gb/academic/subjects/sociology/social-theory/profit-and-gift-digital-economy?format=PB&isbn=9781316509388> > . > > > Dave Elder-Vass's The Causal Power of Social Structures (2010) > > is available online : > http://profs.basu.ac.ir/spakseresht/free_space/the%20causal%20power%20of% > 20social%20structure.pdf > > > > > > > > On 3 August 2016 at 22:49, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yup. >> >> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:48 PM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: >> > It often seems to me that the need to justify ones own position as >> opposed >> > to, rather than in addition to, or including others, comes from the >> > structural imperative to earn a living, which necessitates offering >> > something different and therefore of value in >> > >> > the market place. This is the inevitable concomitant of a capitalist >> economy >> > which requires people to have something of value which they can sell to >> earn >> > a living - labour, intellect, care, etc. >> > >> > >> > Anna >> > >> > >> > On 3 Aug 2016, at 21:31, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > One of your comments resonated with me. We have pretty much abandoned >> > seeking funding and have also stopped responding to request from other >> > people to help them with funding. That leaves holes. But I think we >> > gotta figure out how to support our own activities as much as >> > possible. I know, not always possible. >> > >> > We could try dues...that's what the old Nonpartisan League did and >> > they took over North Dakota and created the state bank, among other >> > things. >> > >> > On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:25 PM, Orsan <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > Well I was expecting you and Peter would make this warning. And this >> > argument is about the methodology of analysis, or as Madron put it, and >> > Fabians would totally agree 'operational complexity management'. I >> think at >> > the current point of time complexity managers has more advanced tools >> and >> > infrastructures to manage the complexity that opposition forces added >> on >> > the complexity created by the intra-elite struggle. On the one hand >> there >> > emerges an alliance of 'delayists' (around next system project, new >> economy >> > alliance, de-growth so on) and on the radical left 'acclerationists' are >> > forming a constellation (around Negri and so on). Some from left like >> > Michael Aalbert, and parecon, David Harvey and rabel cities, negrists or >> > cognitive captalists 'platform cooperatvism', Eric Olin Wright and real >> > Utopias.. are counted in the next system alliance. On the driving seat, >> as >> > John Restakis prompted sometimes ago, there are networks which are >> funded by >> > OAK foundation of UK Royal-state, Rockefe >> > >> > llar, Ford, Soros foundation so on. These formed a founder alliance >> called >> > Edge Funders, whom Michel thinks are radicals. They fund all sort of >> spaces, >> > from WSF, to Left Forum, from the events Michel and Pat mentioned, to >> Ripess >> > -Synergia people (social solidarity economy discourse), from TNI to all >> sort >> > of movement building hubs. Yes There are contradictions every where, >> there >> > is a chaos too, but also there are some orders and regularities that are >> > telling us something, and most worrisome is no one is talking about >> with the >> > fear of not getting any funding and suffer economically. That state of >> > 'being determines the consciousness'. The more no one is willing to talk >> > about these openly the more things go worse. That is all I wanted to >> say.. >> > >> > >> > Orsan >> > >> > >> > On 3 aug. 2016, at 22:03, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > >> > I snipped the previous contents, they were overloading my email >> > >> > viewer. And deleted the WSF from the distro list so they stop >> > >> > complaining at me. >> > >> > >> > Dear Orsan, I agree that alliances with aspects of the powers-that-be >> > >> > pose dangers. And co-optation happens. Fortunately, they don't want to >> > >> > ally with me anyway, otherwise I would need to thread some of those >> > >> > needles. >> > >> > >> > I would, however, repost what I understood from Peter's message. If we >> > >> > are dialectical materialists, we gotta do a dialectical analysis of >> > >> > all these forces and their contradictions and also and maybe >> > >> > especially their internal contradictions. >> > >> > >> > And even after the revolution or transformation or whatever, there >> > >> > will still be contradictions. That's life. >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > NetworkedLabour mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> > > > > -- > > Frederic > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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