In my opinion "reformism" and gradualism are two entirely different things -- the difference being that the later envisons a transition to a system that is fundamentally different, but simply sees the transition as a medium- or long-term process, whereas the former wants to stabilize and ameliorate the existing system of power.
On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Örsan Şenalp <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> As for your reply, what is very striking that not the lack of clarity >> of your opinions on Fabians and relation to Fabianism, but rather a >> weak confirmation you have given only one thing find good in it; >> namely guild socialism; or cooperative solidarity economy vision. I >> would guess this means you believe in gradual change instead of >> full-force attack at the heart of the machine; which kills billions of >> people and destroy the planet; the main principle of the Fabians. > > > Dear Orsan, > > it seems we are re-doing here the 250 year old battle between revoluton and > reformism, and that your critique of Pat, and sometimes of me, is that we > are reformists. > > Personally, I don't see myself as a reformism in the sense it was defined, > > but, I do consider this: > > * the record of revolution is abysmal, with at least 100 million death when > the revolutionaries were in power (the soviet one, but the earlier french > was almost as dramatic); and an untold number during the ongoing defeats of > those that did not succeed > > * the record of social democracy in its golden age was extraordinary, at > least for the western working class, but I would argue, if you look at > national liberation, that was also a fundamental advance, not to mention > civil, gender rights etc .. > > * but even the revolutionaries who were combatting reformism, were not > against reforms > > * now, there is a lot of evidence of social unrest, there were social and > political and electoral s shifts that brought progressives to power, but is > there any evidence that global south workers for example are revolutionary > .. I would argue, they are not, even as they fight radically for social and > labor improvements > > People like Pat Conaty , and myself, want post-capitalist structural > reforms, and a phase transition, but at the same time, we are not opposed to > reforms and to any social advances that social movements can win > > we want full and real democratization, an end to extractive regimes and > practices > > yet, you continuously paint us as enemies it seems, and use a sliding scale > that always ends up with the enemies of the people > > it always seems that your real enemy is not the 1%, but those of the 99% who > do not share your views .. > > I see pat conaty, john restakis and others in the network for a cooperative > commonwealth and synergia, as people with a lifelong record of fighting for > the betterment of their fellow humans > > they want reforms, but they are not reformists, > > Michel > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > > _______________________________________________ > NetworkedLabour mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour > -- Kevin Carson Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list Blog - http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net Wiki - http://www.p2pfoundation.net Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making a donation. Thank you for your support. https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
