Yes I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy between west and others, just that west child rearing culture is only one I'm familiar with.
On Aug 14, 2016 4:41 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Anna, > > are you familiar with the works of Wilhelm Reich at all .. some > interesting hypotheses in his work which echo what you are saying > > and are you familiar with the Institute for Psycho-History ? > > Their history of child abuse is amazing, but also interesting because it > breaks down the dichotomy between, the west is bad and based on domination > vs the rest where all is good, > > see http://www.primal-page.com/psyhis.htm > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I find this discussion very interesting, though haven't had time yet to >> respond. >> >> "I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >> your experiences." >> >> >> The traits you are describing run deeper than class, though they do have >> something to do with how we judge some classes better than others. So eg >> working class is more honest, more down to earth, more on the same level, >> upper class more arrogant, more rigid, more bigoted. But we also know these >> are caricatures, and easily reversed in practice. >> >> I think what is here being described has to do with 'morality', something >> we rarely talk about because it borders on religion. Peer to peer attracts >> us because it is nearer to 'all of us being equal in the eyes of God'. This >> has nothing to do with a belief in God, but something to do with what Peter >> describes as "a dialectical and holistic disposition toward global >> social emancipation". >> >> This also connects with Orsan's concern that people who appear to be 'on >> our side' are being used/funded by people with different intentions. >> >> I've recently been reading neurobiologist Darcia Narvaez book >> 'Neurobiology and the Development of Morality'. https://www.goodrea >> ds.com/book/show/18378036-neurobiology-and-the-developme >> nt-of-human-morality >> >> What is clear from her research is that if a baby's needs are not met, eg >> if it is left to cry itself to sleep, which is a common practice in many >> western cultures, it is imprinted with the experience of a hostile world, >> which can affect its development and produce mental problems such as >> anxiety and depression later in life. The importance of the parent child >> bond in mitigating such experiences, and the resources that a baby brings >> with it, inherited and its own personality, all blend to produce a person's >> identity, which as you say, may be changed with difficulty. >> >> There is a growing movement which sees the necessity of welcoming the >> newborn with positive experiences, to counteract what appears to be the >> 'natural' tendency towards aggression and insecurity in our culture. >> Narvaez makes it clear that this needs to be a community effort, it cannot >> be done alone. >> >> See the 20 presenters at the upcoming conference at Findhorn, Healthy >> Birth, Healthy Earth. https://hbhe.co/presenters/ >> >> Anna >> >> On 13 Aug 2016, at 10:44, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:51 AM, peter waterman >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Are these classes a cause of their behaviour or a result thereof? >> >> >> At least related, I think. >> >> And, in >> >> any case, are these 'classes' or 'identities'? I mean in any conventional >> >> definition of classes. >> >> >> Yeah, it's more complicated. If you believe in intersectionality in >> the bell hooks sense (and I do) and in relationships of domination vs >> relationships of partnership as described recently in this list (and I >> do), then in the capitalist system you got polarities of domination >> and subordination around gender, wealth and relations of production, >> and culture/race. >> >> People's individual personalities are formed in some interacting >> combination of whichever positions in the two or three of those poles >> they were enculturated in. >> >> And it gets even more complicated than that. >> >> I'm just trying to account for some phenomena in some way that is >> discussable without writing a book. >> >> Secondly, what DO you do? >> >> >> http://mikorizal.org >> >> Maybe I would either belong to or become a member >> >> of the preferred class. >> >> >> I'm not pointing fingers. >> >> I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >> your experiences. You can consciously change some of them through >> struggle from and social practice with your comrades, but it ain't >> easy. >> >> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:44 AM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> >> I'm trying to connect to what I think I perceive in some of Orsan's >> >> posts. This is a different angle on what Orsan has been talking about, >> >> but I think it is connected and I think the subject line might be >> >> closer to the essence. >> >> >> We have recent experience with very different groups that we have >> >> worked with in our "solidarity economy" software experiments. None of >> >> which shall be named. Yet. >> >> >> Some people in some groups have this sense of entitlement, as if we >> >> are their employees or they are our customer, rather than us all being >> >> peers in an open source project. >> >> >> They complain a lot. Occasionally they offer helpful suggestions, but >> >> mostly they like to complain. Sometimes when they do make suggestions, >> >> they are way beyond anything that could be implemented, and if >> >> implemented, they would not be able to use the results because the >> >> results would be beyond their competence. >> >> >> They are arrogant. They assume they our intellectual superiors. They >> >> claim to have abilities that in subsequent events they fail miserably >> >> to demonstrate. >> >> >> We meet other groups where people claim to want to collaborate but >> >> fail to do so. Often they are credentialed academics, and we are not. >> >> (I don't even have a college degree. The horror!) They want to publish >> >> papers in proprietary journals which will advance their careers. We >> >> are not helpful in that pursuit. They also assume they are our >> >> intellectual superiors. >> >> >> We work with other groups who do not feel so entitled. Who are eager >> >> to collaborate. Who jump in and work on the software. Who not only >> >> suggest improvements to the software, they jump in and make the >> >> improvements themselves! What a concept! Like a real open source >> >> project! >> >> >> It is so nice. Really. >> >> >> I think we have class differences at work here. What do you think? >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Click here for Peter's recent writings >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> NetworkedLabour mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >> >> > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >
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