I would be very interested to hear more about these three different experiences. The personal is political!
On Aug 14, 2016 6:58 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <[email protected]> wrote: > I have experienced this dichotomy 'in the flesh' by rearing my 2nd set of > children in thailand's original attachment parenting style, and my first > two in the european 'new age re-invention of attachment parenting' style > ... in reaction to my own nearly opposite experience <g> > > On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Yes I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy between west and others, just that >> west child rearing culture is only one I'm familiar with. >> >> On Aug 14, 2016 4:41 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Dear Anna, >>> >>> are you familiar with the works of Wilhelm Reich at all .. some >>> interesting hypotheses in his work which echo what you are saying >>> >>> and are you familiar with the Institute for Psycho-History ? >>> >>> Their history of child abuse is amazing, but also interesting because it >>> breaks down the dichotomy between, the west is bad and based on domination >>> vs the rest where all is good, >>> >>> see http://www.primal-page.com/psyhis.htm >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I find this discussion very interesting, though haven't had time yet to >>>> respond. >>>> >>>> "I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >>>> your experiences." >>>> >>>> >>>> The traits you are describing run deeper than class, though they do >>>> have something to do with how we judge some classes better than others. So >>>> eg working class is more honest, more down to earth, more on the same >>>> level, upper class more arrogant, more rigid, more bigoted. But we also >>>> know these are caricatures, and easily reversed in practice. >>>> >>>> I think what is here being described has to do with 'morality', >>>> something we rarely talk about because it borders on religion. Peer to peer >>>> attracts us because it is nearer to 'all of us being equal in the eyes of >>>> God'. This has nothing to do with a belief in God, but something to do with >>>> what Peter describes as "a dialectical and holistic disposition toward >>>> global social emancipation". >>>> >>>> This also connects with Orsan's concern that people who appear to be >>>> 'on our side' are being used/funded by people with different intentions. >>>> >>>> I've recently been reading neurobiologist Darcia Narvaez book >>>> 'Neurobiology and the Development of Morality'. https://www.goodrea >>>> ds.com/book/show/18378036-neurobiology-and-the-development-o >>>> f-human-morality >>>> >>>> What is clear from her research is that if a baby's needs are not met, >>>> eg if it is left to cry itself to sleep, which is a common practice in many >>>> western cultures, it is imprinted with the experience of a hostile world, >>>> which can affect its development and produce mental problems such as >>>> anxiety and depression later in life. The importance of the parent child >>>> bond in mitigating such experiences, and the resources that a baby brings >>>> with it, inherited and its own personality, all blend to produce a person's >>>> identity, which as you say, may be changed with difficulty. >>>> >>>> There is a growing movement which sees the necessity of welcoming the >>>> newborn with positive experiences, to counteract what appears to be the >>>> 'natural' tendency towards aggression and insecurity in our culture. >>>> Narvaez makes it clear that this needs to be a community effort, it cannot >>>> be done alone. >>>> >>>> See the 20 presenters at the upcoming conference at Findhorn, Healthy >>>> Birth, Healthy Earth. https://hbhe.co/presenters/ >>>> >>>> Anna >>>> >>>> On 13 Aug 2016, at 10:44, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:51 AM, peter waterman >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Are these classes a cause of their behaviour or a result thereof? >>>> >>>> >>>> At least related, I think. >>>> >>>> And, in >>>> >>>> any case, are these 'classes' or 'identities'? I mean in any >>>> conventional >>>> >>>> definition of classes. >>>> >>>> >>>> Yeah, it's more complicated. If you believe in intersectionality in >>>> the bell hooks sense (and I do) and in relationships of domination vs >>>> relationships of partnership as described recently in this list (and I >>>> do), then in the capitalist system you got polarities of domination >>>> and subordination around gender, wealth and relations of production, >>>> and culture/race. >>>> >>>> People's individual personalities are formed in some interacting >>>> combination of whichever positions in the two or three of those poles >>>> they were enculturated in. >>>> >>>> And it gets even more complicated than that. >>>> >>>> I'm just trying to account for some phenomena in some way that is >>>> discussable without writing a book. >>>> >>>> Secondly, what DO you do? >>>> >>>> >>>> http://mikorizal.org >>>> >>>> Maybe I would either belong to or become a member >>>> >>>> of the preferred class. >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm not pointing fingers. >>>> >>>> I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >>>> your experiences. You can consciously change some of them through >>>> struggle from and social practice with your comrades, but it ain't >>>> easy. >>>> >>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:44 AM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I'm trying to connect to what I think I perceive in some of Orsan's >>>> >>>> posts. This is a different angle on what Orsan has been talking about, >>>> >>>> but I think it is connected and I think the subject line might be >>>> >>>> closer to the essence. >>>> >>>> >>>> We have recent experience with very different groups that we have >>>> >>>> worked with in our "solidarity economy" software experiments. None of >>>> >>>> which shall be named. Yet. >>>> >>>> >>>> Some people in some groups have this sense of entitlement, as if we >>>> >>>> are their employees or they are our customer, rather than us all being >>>> >>>> peers in an open source project. >>>> >>>> >>>> They complain a lot. Occasionally they offer helpful suggestions, but >>>> >>>> mostly they like to complain. Sometimes when they do make suggestions, >>>> >>>> they are way beyond anything that could be implemented, and if >>>> >>>> implemented, they would not be able to use the results because the >>>> >>>> results would be beyond their competence. >>>> >>>> >>>> They are arrogant. They assume they our intellectual superiors. They >>>> >>>> claim to have abilities that in subsequent events they fail miserably >>>> >>>> to demonstrate. >>>> >>>> >>>> We meet other groups where people claim to want to collaborate but >>>> >>>> fail to do so. Often they are credentialed academics, and we are not. >>>> >>>> (I don't even have a college degree. The horror!) They want to publish >>>> >>>> papers in proprietary journals which will advance their careers. We >>>> >>>> are not helpful in that pursuit. They also assume they are our >>>> >>>> intellectual superiors. >>>> >>>> >>>> We work with other groups who do not feel so entitled. Who are eager >>>> >>>> to collaborate. Who jump in and work on the software. Who not only >>>> >>>> suggest improvements to the software, they jump in and make the >>>> >>>> improvements themselves! What a concept! Like a real open source >>>> >>>> project! >>>> >>>> >>>> It is so nice. Really. >>>> >>>> >>>> I think we have class differences at work here. What do you think? >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>>> >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Click here for Peter's recent writings >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >>> http://commonstransition.org >>> >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>> >>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>> >>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >>> >> > > > -- > Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > http://commonstransition.org > > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > > <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >
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