thanks for putting time in this ... (though I was asking for evidence of gulen support for jason bourne movies <g>)
I have a quite different interpretation of bourne ... the assange and the girl are portrayed sympathetically, the CIA is presented as entirely led by crooks at all levels, with a few ethical lone riders being fought by the system .. but I guess that's a matter of interpretation I retain from your arguments that you see there are two factions in the ruling class, including a more liberal one, which is entirely plausible, but that the evidence for the concrete links you assume have be researched, which is fine, I think the overall strenghts of the arguments would be stronger without these leaps, Michel On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 7:14 PM, Örsan Şenalp <[email protected]> wrote: > The hard evidence for such stuff can come from insiders. May be p2p > open intelligence guy (Robert Atllee?), or John Robb, or their contact > in special operation units, or intelligence could give better insight > about how these things work. In case you have time to go through, such > evidence is for long is made public by wikileaks. This is one single > example about Turkey and Gulen: > https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/37/379052_fw-ct-former- > turk-intel-guy-says-gulen-is-cia-front-in.html > > This is Graham Fuller, CIA regional desk director for middle east > -based in Turkey for long, on Gulen: > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/graham-e-fuller/gulen- > movement-not-cult_b_11116858.html > > To compare Gulen with the Moon cult: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon > > Also please google, or search wikileaks files on Gulen, Vatican, and > Moon relationships. > > But I think anyone can try to develop clearer and informed argument, > using scattered intelligence on rulers and their global operations. > > Which would takes a good article; in the end no one would read, or get > it, or don't want to get it :) as in Dmytri's article case, articles > can not change the world. > > As for the moment, I can remind and try to compile some of the > different posts and links I shared in various context, while they were > all inter-related to me. They were linking, in my mind, or mapping the > historical inter-related developments of military deception, special > operation units, organisational science, TNCs and supply chains, > complex systems management, behavioural social-mass-movement > management (as in Canvas - Otpor story), and finally today's big data > based Minerva projects as complementary operations to PRISM and > others. > > Gulen and Moon is extremely important, since they were 'left projects' > of radical democracy: known as long march through the institutions. > Rulers, get these left-'radical' reflections and implement them. In 30 > years, Gulen occupied all high ranks at state institutions; starting > from armed forces, army and police, and jurisdiction and education. > Now they have been every where. The guys, both were related to Gladio, > and were prominent anti-communists; both become global liberal > religious 'movements'. > > May be historically 'liberal' activists, as you see them as part of > the 'left', as in the US mainstream media and commonsense, Gulen and > Moon are used for soft-religious movements in Islamic and eastern > christian worlds. unification Church of Moon, or 'Dialogue' between > Religions project of Gulen, have been part of surrounding China, and > Russia since the end of 90s. In a sense, the rock-star left-activism > of Bob Geldof, Bono, Angelina Jolie, John Cossack, or Matt Damon for > that matter, is very related to the liberalism of Moon and Gulen. Not > in terms of radical social system change at all, but liberally > conserving or managing the complexities of the change process; so that > any change would not dis-allow 'being' famous, or 'being' millioners > -in which to them there is nothing wrong; but exactly because of this > they fell on the 'right' today, instead of 'left'. > > I think Peter and you mean well, when you argue, for 'Dialogue', or > possibilities that are independent from what is being calculated, > choreographed, executed, or screened, as part of any ruling class > project or 'plots', as 'UBI' or 'Commmons', or 'Green New Economy', > neo-keinesianism so on; since nothing can be totally calculated there > can be positive and unexpected outcomes coming about. I think, no one > would disagree with this. > > Yet, both in your arguments one can not hear about the limitations and > structural strait-jackets designed and put on such unexpected > 'anomalies', or dangerous social complexities tried to be manged. I > would recommend you Pasquinelli's writings on 'systemic anomaly' > tracing algorithm as a supporting evidence about the size and scope of > the modern Panopticon; or clashes of Panopticons. I think what is > thought as power of liberal democracy, in political-philosophical > sense, also reflects its biggest weakness. In relation to your > question Michel: 'how and why would CIA fund or back movies that > destroys its image?' this point is essential to grasp (not sure if you > watched any of the Bourne or Bond movies): any total or out-come > message sent by these movies is not serving to destruct the image of > the CIA, at all. In opposite it provide clearing for first 'liberal > democracy' in the US (as it remained at all), and then the truly > patriotic soul-elements within CIA that are constantly treated by > individual free riders, criminals, wrong doers; and blocked by them to > serve and save their country. This is not a destruction of the public > image of the CIA, opposite it is a part of deceptive image-cleaning > operation, imho. > > As, in the scene, where Bourne meets someone appears in a terrorist > outlook, even darker skin, but who clearly represent Assange, wants to > expose 'all misdoing and fucked up institutions of the system'; and > Bourne clearly accuse him by exploiting the informant girl -just > killed by criminals running the 'agency- and he says he is not on > 'their side'. Then there is the Google guy, whose owning the Deep > Dream, which got allowed by criminal aspects in CIA to be billioner, > and in returned asked to create 'Iron Hand' structure, to be able to > follow and record all private and public communication. Clearly film > represents the reality, as the CEO stands with CIA-gang, and good > guys, like the owner of Google, Bourne, and idealist potentially new > female candidate for directorship of the agency forms an alliance for > the future. There is no place to Assange, so he gets killed by Bourne > after he tries to get the files by killing him. > > At a time internal fighting between the almost equally forces of > liberal and conservative ruling class fractions, such in-fights derail > the legitimacy of the entire system. Then out of the widening cracks, > there emerges right wing and fascist alternatives, in the midst of > increasingly delegitimation of the parlimantair liberal democracy; > casued by the publication of the darkness of the rulers through their > countering accuasations via films, media services, news, public > debates so on so forth. This constitute the weakness of the > power-balance, that is perceived as 'liberal democracy' to masses. > When this balance is broken, to a level, and losing control becomes a > real threat for liberals (as for conservatives) then they call for > stronger but domesticated 'left' voices, public figures, religious > cults... so on. Again look at Fuller's and other CIA linked > intellectuals writings for regional or world politics. To me, Matt > Damon, Bono, and other left-activists are popularising figures what > Graham Fuller was wishing more (left movement in Turkey). I would > argue, this is not a call, this is a talk in operational terms, and > they make this call globally and in general. > > People like Fuller, knows that system without alternative is doomed to > collapse, and they want to create and manage the emergence of > left-alternatives. Weather p2p, commons, new economy,.. they want to > be in charge in the creation of The Next System. > > O. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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