for when we meet offline again <g> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 1:05 PM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote:
> I would be very interested to hear more about these three different > experiences. > The personal is political! > > On Aug 14, 2016 6:58 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> I have experienced this dichotomy 'in the flesh' by rearing my 2nd set of >> children in thailand's original attachment parenting style, and my first >> two in the european 'new age re-invention of attachment parenting' style >> ... in reaction to my own nearly opposite experience <g> >> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Yes I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy between west and others, just >>> that west child rearing culture is only one I'm familiar with. >>> >>> On Aug 14, 2016 4:41 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear Anna, >>>> >>>> are you familiar with the works of Wilhelm Reich at all .. some >>>> interesting hypotheses in his work which echo what you are saying >>>> >>>> and are you familiar with the Institute for Psycho-History ? >>>> >>>> Their history of child abuse is amazing, but also interesting because >>>> it breaks down the dichotomy between, the west is bad and based on >>>> domination vs the rest where all is good, >>>> >>>> see http://www.primal-page.com/psyhis.htm >>>> >>>> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I find this discussion very interesting, though haven't had time yet >>>>> to respond. >>>>> >>>>> "I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >>>>> your experiences." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The traits you are describing run deeper than class, though they do >>>>> have something to do with how we judge some classes better than others. So >>>>> eg working class is more honest, more down to earth, more on the same >>>>> level, upper class more arrogant, more rigid, more bigoted. But we also >>>>> know these are caricatures, and easily reversed in practice. >>>>> >>>>> I think what is here being described has to do with 'morality', >>>>> something we rarely talk about because it borders on religion. Peer to >>>>> peer >>>>> attracts us because it is nearer to 'all of us being equal in the eyes of >>>>> God'. This has nothing to do with a belief in God, but something to do >>>>> with >>>>> what Peter describes as "a dialectical and holistic disposition >>>>> toward global social emancipation". >>>>> >>>>> This also connects with Orsan's concern that people who appear to be >>>>> 'on our side' are being used/funded by people with different intentions. >>>>> >>>>> I've recently been reading neurobiologist Darcia Narvaez book >>>>> 'Neurobiology and the Development of Morality'. https://www.goodrea >>>>> ds.com/book/show/18378036-neurobiology-and-the-development-o >>>>> f-human-morality >>>>> >>>>> What is clear from her research is that if a baby's needs are not met, >>>>> eg if it is left to cry itself to sleep, which is a common practice in >>>>> many >>>>> western cultures, it is imprinted with the experience of a hostile world, >>>>> which can affect its development and produce mental problems such as >>>>> anxiety and depression later in life. The importance of the parent child >>>>> bond in mitigating such experiences, and the resources that a baby brings >>>>> with it, inherited and its own personality, all blend to produce a >>>>> person's >>>>> identity, which as you say, may be changed with difficulty. >>>>> >>>>> There is a growing movement which sees the necessity of welcoming the >>>>> newborn with positive experiences, to counteract what appears to be the >>>>> 'natural' tendency towards aggression and insecurity in our culture. >>>>> Narvaez makes it clear that this needs to be a community effort, it cannot >>>>> be done alone. >>>>> >>>>> See the 20 presenters at the upcoming conference at Findhorn, Healthy >>>>> Birth, Healthy Earth. https://hbhe.co/presenters/ >>>>> >>>>> Anna >>>>> >>>>> On 13 Aug 2016, at 10:44, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:51 AM, peter waterman >>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Are these classes a cause of their behaviour or a result thereof? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At least related, I think. >>>>> >>>>> And, in >>>>> >>>>> any case, are these 'classes' or 'identities'? I mean in any >>>>> conventional >>>>> >>>>> definition of classes. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, it's more complicated. If you believe in intersectionality in >>>>> the bell hooks sense (and I do) and in relationships of domination vs >>>>> relationships of partnership as described recently in this list (and I >>>>> do), then in the capitalist system you got polarities of domination >>>>> and subordination around gender, wealth and relations of production, >>>>> and culture/race. >>>>> >>>>> People's individual personalities are formed in some interacting >>>>> combination of whichever positions in the two or three of those poles >>>>> they were enculturated in. >>>>> >>>>> And it gets even more complicated than that. >>>>> >>>>> I'm just trying to account for some phenomena in some way that is >>>>> discussable without writing a book. >>>>> >>>>> Secondly, what DO you do? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> http://mikorizal.org >>>>> >>>>> Maybe I would either belong to or become a member >>>>> >>>>> of the preferred class. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm not pointing fingers. >>>>> >>>>> I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >>>>> your experiences. You can consciously change some of them through >>>>> struggle from and social practice with your comrades, but it ain't >>>>> easy. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:44 AM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I'm trying to connect to what I think I perceive in some of Orsan's >>>>> >>>>> posts. This is a different angle on what Orsan has been talking about, >>>>> >>>>> but I think it is connected and I think the subject line might be >>>>> >>>>> closer to the essence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We have recent experience with very different groups that we have >>>>> >>>>> worked with in our "solidarity economy" software experiments. None of >>>>> >>>>> which shall be named. Yet. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Some people in some groups have this sense of entitlement, as if we >>>>> >>>>> are their employees or they are our customer, rather than us all being >>>>> >>>>> peers in an open source project. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> They complain a lot. Occasionally they offer helpful suggestions, but >>>>> >>>>> mostly they like to complain. Sometimes when they do make suggestions, >>>>> >>>>> they are way beyond anything that could be implemented, and if >>>>> >>>>> implemented, they would not be able to use the results because the >>>>> >>>>> results would be beyond their competence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> They are arrogant. They assume they our intellectual superiors. They >>>>> >>>>> claim to have abilities that in subsequent events they fail miserably >>>>> >>>>> to demonstrate. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We meet other groups where people claim to want to collaborate but >>>>> >>>>> fail to do so. Often they are credentialed academics, and we are not. >>>>> >>>>> (I don't even have a college degree. The horror!) They want to publish >>>>> >>>>> papers in proprietary journals which will advance their careers. We >>>>> >>>>> are not helpful in that pursuit. They also assume they are our >>>>> >>>>> intellectual superiors. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We work with other groups who do not feel so entitled. Who are eager >>>>> >>>>> to collaborate. Who jump in and work on the software. Who not only >>>>> >>>>> suggest improvements to the software, they jump in and make the >>>>> >>>>> improvements themselves! What a concept! Like a real open source >>>>> >>>>> project! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It is so nice. Really. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I think we have class differences at work here. What do you think? >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>>>> >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Click here for Peter's recent writings >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >>>> http://commonstransition.org >>>> >>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >>>> >>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >>>> >>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >>>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >> http://commonstransition.org >> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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