I have experienced this dichotomy 'in the flesh' by rearing my 2nd set of children in thailand's original attachment parenting style, and my first two in the european 'new age re-invention of attachment parenting' style ... in reaction to my own nearly opposite experience <g>
On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 12:55 PM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes I didn't mean to imply a dichotomy between west and others, just that > west child rearing culture is only one I'm familiar with. > > On Aug 14, 2016 4:41 AM, "Michel Bauwens" <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Dear Anna, >> >> are you familiar with the works of Wilhelm Reich at all .. some >> interesting hypotheses in his work which echo what you are saying >> >> and are you familiar with the Institute for Psycho-History ? >> >> Their history of child abuse is amazing, but also interesting because it >> breaks down the dichotomy between, the west is bad and based on domination >> vs the rest where all is good, >> >> see http://www.primal-page.com/psyhis.htm >> >> On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 2:12 AM, Anna Harris <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> I find this discussion very interesting, though haven't had time yet to >>> respond. >>> >>> "I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >>> your experiences." >>> >>> >>> The traits you are describing run deeper than class, though they do have >>> something to do with how we judge some classes better than others. So eg >>> working class is more honest, more down to earth, more on the same level, >>> upper class more arrogant, more rigid, more bigoted. But we also know these >>> are caricatures, and easily reversed in practice. >>> >>> I think what is here being described has to do with 'morality', >>> something we rarely talk about because it borders on religion. Peer to peer >>> attracts us because it is nearer to 'all of us being equal in the eyes of >>> God'. This has nothing to do with a belief in God, but something to do with >>> what Peter describes as "a dialectical and holistic disposition toward >>> global social emancipation". >>> >>> This also connects with Orsan's concern that people who appear to be 'on >>> our side' are being used/funded by people with different intentions. >>> >>> I've recently been reading neurobiologist Darcia Narvaez book >>> 'Neurobiology and the Development of Morality'. https://www.goodrea >>> ds.com/book/show/18378036-neurobiology-and-the-development- >>> of-human-morality >>> >>> What is clear from her research is that if a baby's needs are not met, >>> eg if it is left to cry itself to sleep, which is a common practice in many >>> western cultures, it is imprinted with the experience of a hostile world, >>> which can affect its development and produce mental problems such as >>> anxiety and depression later in life. The importance of the parent child >>> bond in mitigating such experiences, and the resources that a baby brings >>> with it, inherited and its own personality, all blend to produce a person's >>> identity, which as you say, may be changed with difficulty. >>> >>> There is a growing movement which sees the necessity of welcoming the >>> newborn with positive experiences, to counteract what appears to be the >>> 'natural' tendency towards aggression and insecurity in our culture. >>> Narvaez makes it clear that this needs to be a community effort, it cannot >>> be done alone. >>> >>> See the 20 presenters at the upcoming conference at Findhorn, Healthy >>> Birth, Healthy Earth. https://hbhe.co/presenters/ >>> >>> Anna >>> >>> On 13 Aug 2016, at 10:44, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:51 AM, peter waterman >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Are these classes a cause of their behaviour or a result thereof? >>> >>> >>> At least related, I think. >>> >>> And, in >>> >>> any case, are these 'classes' or 'identities'? I mean in any conventional >>> >>> definition of classes. >>> >>> >>> Yeah, it's more complicated. If you believe in intersectionality in >>> the bell hooks sense (and I do) and in relationships of domination vs >>> relationships of partnership as described recently in this list (and I >>> do), then in the capitalist system you got polarities of domination >>> and subordination around gender, wealth and relations of production, >>> and culture/race. >>> >>> People's individual personalities are formed in some interacting >>> combination of whichever positions in the two or three of those poles >>> they were enculturated in. >>> >>> And it gets even more complicated than that. >>> >>> I'm just trying to account for some phenomena in some way that is >>> discussable without writing a book. >>> >>> Secondly, what DO you do? >>> >>> >>> http://mikorizal.org >>> >>> Maybe I would either belong to or become a member >>> >>> of the preferred class. >>> >>> >>> I'm not pointing fingers. >>> >>> I think your basic traits were formed early and evolved through all of >>> your experiences. You can consciously change some of them through >>> struggle from and social practice with your comrades, but it ain't >>> easy. >>> >>> On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 12:44 AM, Bob Haugen <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'm trying to connect to what I think I perceive in some of Orsan's >>> >>> posts. This is a different angle on what Orsan has been talking about, >>> >>> but I think it is connected and I think the subject line might be >>> >>> closer to the essence. >>> >>> >>> We have recent experience with very different groups that we have >>> >>> worked with in our "solidarity economy" software experiments. None of >>> >>> which shall be named. Yet. >>> >>> >>> Some people in some groups have this sense of entitlement, as if we >>> >>> are their employees or they are our customer, rather than us all being >>> >>> peers in an open source project. >>> >>> >>> They complain a lot. Occasionally they offer helpful suggestions, but >>> >>> mostly they like to complain. Sometimes when they do make suggestions, >>> >>> they are way beyond anything that could be implemented, and if >>> >>> implemented, they would not be able to use the results because the >>> >>> results would be beyond their competence. >>> >>> >>> They are arrogant. They assume they our intellectual superiors. They >>> >>> claim to have abilities that in subsequent events they fail miserably >>> >>> to demonstrate. >>> >>> >>> We meet other groups where people claim to want to collaborate but >>> >>> fail to do so. Often they are credentialed academics, and we are not. >>> >>> (I don't even have a college degree. The horror!) They want to publish >>> >>> papers in proprietary journals which will advance their careers. We >>> >>> are not helpful in that pursuit. They also assume they are our >>> >>> intellectual superiors. >>> >>> >>> We work with other groups who do not feel so entitled. Who are eager >>> >>> to collaborate. Who jump in and work on the software. Who not only >>> >>> suggest improvements to the software, they jump in and make the >>> >>> improvements themselves! What a concept! Like a real open source >>> >>> project! >>> >>> >>> It is so nice. Really. >>> >>> >>> I think we have class differences at work here. What do you think? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> >>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Click here for Peter's recent writings >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> NetworkedLabour mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: >> http://commonstransition.org >> >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ >> > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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