Comrades If Sobukwe used that definition as matter of principle, then I am challenge to see why did we have a problem with Freedom Charter's "land belong to those who live in it". It is difficult to measure objectively loyalty - loyalty change over time.
If Sobukwe used that definition as matter of strategy and tact to mobilise external solidarity and avoid move focus from racist apartheid system (to a situation where system points finger to racist PAC), then that was shrewd move. If Sobokwa used that definition as matter of strategy and tact to move mind of indigenous from hate (mischanelled hate), with appreciation that hatred consumer the source, then I appreciate vision. Creating proactive force rather than a reactive force. This definition sound so integrationist - African history is full integrationist tendencies that cost us dearly. Izwe Lethu, iAfrika On 22 June 2011 13:13, Mzu Cabanga <[email protected]> wrote: > Thank you again m-Afrika Mduduzi, > > Well tata Sobukwe was a very wise man however as a human being he was > subjected to mistakes as well as he was not GOD. > > I find it confusing that never did he try or think of the word indeginous > when he was defining an Afrikan. > > Would it be because he wanted to be politically correct or the pressures of > that time simply did not allow him to express himself freely. > > These are questions that I am still pondering because I believe in the > saying that there is always room for improvement. > > I do not think whites can be Afrikans nor can they be loyal to Afrika as > their roots cannot be traced in Afrika. > > As much as they can be sympathetic of the black condition but they will > always be loyal to their ancestral family which is the white race whose > roots can only be traced in Europe or the Northen Hemisphere. > > As I have said before I am still 24 years old and on a learning curve but I > also think we cannot be tied to tata Sobukwe's definition of an Afrikan like > it was written in the bible, we are also Pan Afrikanists and can correct > mistakes than were done by our forefathers. > > Like they always say, the struggle is a relay............ you pass it on to > those infront of you to take it forward. > > With all due respect to tata Mangaliso Sobukwe. > > Izwelethu!!!!!!! > > > On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 12:45 PM, Mduduzi Sibeko > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> Cde Seroke and Mzu**** >> >> On the issue of race and who was an African this is what Sobukwe said**** >> >> “*Politically we stand for government of the Africans for the Africans by >> the Africans with everybody who owes his only loyalty to Africa and accepts >> the democratic rule of an African majority, being regarded as an African. We >> guarantee no minority rights because we are fighting precisely that >> group-exclusiveness which those who plead for minority rights would like to >> perpetuate. It is our view that if we have guaranteed individual liberties >> we have given the highest guarantee necessary and possible. I have said >> before, and I will still say so now, that I see no reason why, in a free, >> democratic Africa, a predominantly black electorate should not return a >> white man to parliament, for colour will count for nothing in a free >> Africa.”* >> >> During the late eighties and early 90’s. I grappled with the problem of >> harmonizing the concepts of white minority rule, (as it was a common phrase >> or a cliché that was used in the literature of liberation movements) and >> what Sobukwe had said about who was an African and our unqualified loathing >> of minority rights guarantees. Sometimes in 1993, Former president >> Clarence Makwethu had a meeting with Mr. fw De klerk. According to >> President Makwethu, F.W said to him. “ Mr. Makwethu, can I have a question >> to you ?”. Makwethu said “ go ahead” “Who is a settler” asked De Klerk. You >> see, without a coherent ideological understanding, it would have been >> difficult for Makwethu to delineate our position in as far as the issue of >> race and who was an African. however, Mr. Makwethu ,was at times, astute and >> vibrant in debates. He clarified the position to Mr. De Klerk. The question >> that you raised about the over- inclusiveness of the definition of African >> is a problem that I don’t think that as an africanist i will address it >> satisfactorily. We define an African as “everybody who owes his only loyalty >> to Africa and accepts the democratic rule of an African majority” the >> questions becomes, what about those that are natives in this country but do >> not want to accept the democratic rule of the African majority. admittedly, >> we as africanist are extremely reluctant to regard whites as Africans. The >> very same tagging them as settlers was ideologically incorrect. I know very >> well that some of you that have read to this passage may be now beginning >> to tag me as a liberal. Be what it may be, this is my understanding which >> may also be ideologically incorrect. The question is, designations such as >> Settlers, Europeans and others, were they to be used perpetually*. *What >> did we mean when we said and venerated Sobukwe’s words which read as* “in >> our vocabulary, the word races as applied to man, does not exist, we regard >> multiracism as racism multiplied*” I do not gainsay the indisputable fact >> that there are whites, who are even to this day, do not want to accept the >> democratic rule of the majority. Isolating them from the definition of who >> is an African becomes as difficult as flogging a dead horse to life again. >> Maybe, the concept of human race was just a simplicity, how is it applied. >> Let’s be honest. Do we regard whites today as Africans ? **** >> >> ** ** >> >> the question is very difficult for me**** >> >> * * >> >> kind regards**** >> >> *Mduduzi Sibeko* >> >> *Admin/finance***** >> >> [image: cid:[email protected]] >> T +27-11-724-9281 >> C +27-71-101-2595 >> F +27-11-900-1929 **** >> >> F 086-754-2176 >> E [email protected] >> *www.randwater.co.za***** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf >> Of *Mzu Cabanga >> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 22, 2011 9:59 AM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [PAYCO]**** >> >> ** ** >> >> Dear comrade Mduduzi, >> >> As a young Afrikan I thank Afrikans like you and Jaki who I can see are >> still making it their duty to nurture young Afrikans out there unlike some >> who were in the APLA and are now a disgrace to Pan Afrikanism. >> >> Is the definition of an Afrikan that tata Sobukwe still relevant today >> given the experiences recently? >> >> I think I need a bit of a clarity on this as I think it is too inclusive, >> inclusive of people who wants to be excluded from this category.**** >> >> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 5:41 PM, Mduduzi Sibeko <[email protected]> >> wrote:**** >> >> Dear comrade Mzu:**** >> >> **** >> >> I was not able to respond to your response last week due to some daily >> chores and work commitments. However, I need to make the following comments. >> You seem to have a parochial view of our political antecedents. It is a >> simple thing to blame the ANC and NP for the World Trade Center settlement, >> and other thing to absolve the blame to the PAC . this, I say, because you >> indicate that the victory was the ANC’S. The point I wanted to make was >> that, during the negotiations, the capitalists were much aware of what they >> were likely to lose in negotiations. Eventually, they sought to safeguard >> the following**** >> >> **** >> >> · Sunset clause (Power sharing)**** >> >> · Bill of rights ( right to own a property)**** >> >> · TRC ( a means to evade jail for offenders of >> apartheid)**** >> >> **** >> >> The foregoing list is not exhaustive, however, it is indicative of the >> fact that whites acted proactively. As I indicated that in any armed >> conflict, parties in belligerence ought to negotiate the immunity of >> belligerents. World history in armed conflicts is replete with examples of >> diplomacy or negotiations after wartime for the protection of the >> guerrillas. Admittedly, we were inexperienced and myopic of the fact that >> our fraternal brothers ( ANC) would turn against us. As a result, we are >> sitting with an challenging problem of having our comrades languishing in >> prisons in a country they fought to liberate. Unfortunately, to resolve this >> problem, insurrection can never be an ideal solution, rather constitutional >> means can be appropriate. However, the so called presidential pardons are >> invariably taking protracted time. it is very touching that people that >> fought to liberate us are behind bars.**** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> **** >> >> *KInd regards***** >> >> *Mduduzi Sibeko***** >> >> *Admin/finance***** >> >> [image: cid:[email protected]] >> T +27-11-724-9281 >> C +27-71-101-2595 >> F +27-11-900-1929 **** >> >> F 086-754-2176 >> Email: [email protected] >> URL *:www.randwater.co.za***** >> >> **** >> >> This email and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential and >> proprietary information. This information is private and protected by law >> and, accordingly, if you are not the intended recipient, you are requested >> to delete this entire communication immediately and are notified that any >> disclosure, copying or distribution of or taking any action based on this >> information is prohibited. >> >> Emails cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses. 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