Ken what you are missing is that I have seen the exact photo on the web
attributed to these different photographers. Not similar . I said
"looks like"
in a tone of voice you couldn' read in email ;-) and an overabundance
of caution should it turn out that the three suspects actually were on
the same
outting in Churchill and the differences are only in a barely
perceptable shift in angle of view.
and I understand the marketing and that cutsiepie sells -- I have not
been above it myself - I sell "cute" on cafepress.
Don't know why there has been no legal action - but given the width of
the web and the problem that nothing dissappears from cyberspace,
finding two other occurances where the photo was wrongly credited by
someone somewhere would not be surprising.. even -after- legal action
was taken.
One thought id occur to me.. that one or both of the other photographers
sold their prints of his photo as gallery marketers.. or as stock..
Maybe after the holidays I'll contact Mangelsen, at least his gallery if
not actually him with his mystery. Also I'll gather the links in one
place to
the differently attributed one.
and thanks again for finding the correct guy!
ann
On 12/23/2018 12:43 PM, Ken Waller wrote:
Ann - to me Mangelsen is one of the very best outdoor photogs - but
IMO he IS the best at marketing and selling his work.
But two other photographers have been credited with what looks like
an exact photo on the web....
Key to your statement is 'looks like' - I seriously doubt that their
images are identical to Mangelsen's, if it was there would probably be
legal action among the parties involved. As I said in an earlier
email - polar bears inhabit a large portion of the north country and
are typically photographed by pros in great light, with the attraction
of the momma and 2 cubs not being that rare.
To me, the photo is not one of his best by a large margin.. too
static and a bit too cutsie-pie for me... which goes along with my
opinion of
deceased friends taste in general.
I somewhat agree with your take on the image, but remember he's
looking to sell to the general public, and cutsie sells !
Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
----- Original Message ----- From: "ann sanfedele" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: PESO - a framed photo by...?
Ken - it is clear you are right... though the photo of the photo I
showed you guys is askew.. there are other bits in other party goes
photos...
Also, given the size my friend has and the prices for a framed numbered
and signed print on his web page of that specific shot The ID of the
work my friend has is solved..
But two other photographers have been credited with what looks like an
exact photo on the web.... I'm not thinking the other photographers
plagerized Mangelsen's work or claimed they or he or she took it, but
that multiple mistakes have been made in attribution.
Ken - there are cases on line of that exact photo being attributed to
two other photogs - not "similar" - perhaps because all three are
noted for
their photos taken in Churchill - perhaps a lot of innocent
misattribution by deduction, as it were.
When I've googled my name in the image google search, lots of photos
appear that were neither taken by me or are photso OF me - of course I
know
which are mine and which photos I'm in, but someone doing sloppy
research might put my name on someone elses work, then someone sees that
and continiues the myth.
I|m really glad you knew for sure... and I am familiar with his work,
too, but not to the extent you are - seen some interviews and such on
PBS for instance..
To me, the photo is not one of his best by a large margin.. too static
and a bit too cutsie-pie for me... which goes along with my opinion of
deceased friends taste in general.
ann
On 12/22/2018 12:46 AM, Ken Waller wrote:
Its a Mangelsen photo. All the photos in his galleries are by him. He
had galleries in several cities (I've been to his galleries in Santa
Barbara, Ca., Jackson Hole ,Wy. and in the Pittsburgh Airport). His
were the best photographic galleries I've ever had the pleasure of
visiting.
I just don't see the three** of them standing tripod to tripod to
tripod photographing the same trio of bears. So who plagiarized whom?
There's no plagiarizing going on here IMO. Mangelsen and Ward are
well known outdoor photogs and travel extensively to capture the
images they seek. Polar bears are a favorite subject for alot of
outdoor photographers and are photographed in numerous place. Just
because similar images are taken by several photographers doesn't
mean there is any plagiarizing going on - except maybe from the first
photog to show a polar bear image like "Winter Solace". As far as I
know, Mangelsen was the first pro photog to shown a Grizzly bear at
Brooks Falls in Katmai Alaska, with a salmon jumping into its mouth.
All similar shots like his have been called the Mangelsen shot by
other pros.
Finally, that's a mighty cheap looking frame for an image that sold
for so much.
As noted on the Mangelsen web page, he offers the image in 8
different display options from framed to canvas only.
A limited edition print should also be signed & numbered, usually on
the mat.
According to Mangelsen's web page - "All Mangelsen limited edition
photographs are assigned a unique number and hand-signed by the
artist. Each photograph includes a certificate of authenticity".
Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller
----- Original Message ----- From: "John" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2018 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: PESO - a framed photo by...?
I note that Mangelsen Gallery doesn't identify a photographer, but
presumably if
another photographer had taken it, the gallery would attribute it to
them, so it
"must" have been taken by Thomas Mangelsen. ???
That raises more questions than it answers.
We now have three versions of the same image (one a mirror copy)
supposedly
taken by Thomas Mangelsen, Kennan Ward and/or Tom & Pat Leeson.
I just don't see the three** of them standing tripod to tripod to tripod
photographing the same trio of bears. So who plagiarized whom?
I still wonder how the two versions of the image came to be mirrored
and was it
taken in Churchill in Manitoba or at ANWR in Alaska ... or somewhere
else? But
that's the least of the questions I have about the image.
Another thing ... if it was purchased from Mangelsen Gallery, there
should be a
label on the back, especially if it's a limited edition print
(certificate of
authenticity?). A limited edition print should also be signed &
numbered,
usually on the mat.
Finally, that's a mighty cheap looking frame for an image that sold
for so much.
On 12/19/2018 22:49:33, ann sanfedele wrote:
John - Ken wrote me off list - I didnt realise he had not sent his
reply to the list.. As a result of his correct ID I replied...
Third attribution today... I think you have the right answer -- The
price adds up to what friend 1 paid for it
https://www.mangelsen.com/platinum-level-images/winter-solace-2446.html
and who was it that noted that it could have been taken on a photo
outing in in Churchill - I knew (or felt certain that was where it
was taken)
thanks, Ken
ann
On 12/19/2018 8:04 PM, Ken Waller wrote:
Ann, it's a Thomas Mangelsen image titled "Winter Solace", one of
1500 copies, with only 5 left for sale by Mangelsen - it goes for
$1595. A mother polar bear and cubs are a familiar subject for those
that photograph them.
Hope this helps.
On 12/19/2018 10:31 PM, John wrote:
This particular trio of bears appears to have been photographed at
ANWR - the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska.
On 12/19/2018 17:42:41, Jostein wrote:
My thought as well, Bob. A very popular place for North American
photographers is the town Churchill in Canada, situated on the
Hudson Bay where polar bears gather to wait for the bay to freeze
over so they can go hunt seals.
https://www.google.com/search?q=polar+bear+churchill&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwibrqiN-6zfAhWEESwKHW2ICKMQsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1920&bih=1064
Jostein
Den 19.12.2018 22:54, skrev Bob W-PDML:
That's interesting. It looks to me as though the Kennan and
Leeson photos are separate pictures of the same scene, taken at
the same time with the photographers next to each other, for
example on the same expedition/photo tour. Look at the tuft of
grass in each one in relation to the bears - it shows slightly
different angles. Or it could be that the site I linked to had
wrongly attributed the photo.
** Four counting Pat Leeson.
--
ann sanfedele photography
https://annsan.smugmug.com
https://www.cafepress.com/annsanstuff
https://www.lulu.com/spotlight/annsan
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