> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gareth De Mar
> Sent: 22 June 2005 04:16
> To: Protel EDA Discussion List
> Subject: RE: [PEDA] Library organisation etc
> 
> Hello Norman, John...
> 
> John, thankyou for pointing me to the kb article.  I was 
> unaware of the sourcesafe/.ddb issue.
> Here we actually use .ddb's with sourcesafe.  The only issue 
> I am aware of is that it is necessary to close down 
> protel99se prior to checking in/out .ddb library files.

Gareth

Perhaps as the files are locked until you actually close P99SE? Sometimes
even waiting for the process to stop afetr a long session.

Sometimes if the application crashes and has to be terminated you will see a
.ldb file of the same name as the .ddb present in the same path (if you
allow view of system files :-) )

John

> It appears that protel keeps them open even when closed 
> within protel.  I am not actually 100% sure that this is the 
> cause of the problem, and haven't made time to go investigate.
> Needless to say, we just close protel99se when checking 
> in/out any libraries, and re-start afterwards.
> I will say though, that it is a small nuisance.
> 
> Norman, the way we do things here is separate .ddb files for 
> footprints and schematic parts.
> Within the .ddb files, we have numerous library files. eg 
> different libs for discrete SMD and semiconductor IPC 
> footprints, and other miscellaneous footprint libs.  With 
> regards to the schematic .ddb, we have numerous schematic 
> libraries in that broken up into categories like resistors, 
> capacitors, inductors,  and many semiconductor libs from 
> processors to fpga's and others.  I guess there are many many 
> many ways of setting that up.  Its a matter of choosing the 
> most appropriate approach that fits your requirements.
> 
> About custom footprints.  A schematic library part allows 
> upto 4 footprints to be specified.
> In the case where you need a custom footprint for a 
> particular part, I would add the footprint to the appropriate 
> library within the footprints .ddb.  Then I would add that 
> footprint to the particular schematic part you want to use it 
> with.  I do this with some transistor and diode parts, where 
> I want a pad(s) to provide some heatsinking properties.  I 
> only make custom footprint available to particular schematic 
> part(s).  If you want to retrospectively apply it to previous 
> schematic parts...
> well... that can be a problem!  There might be a way by 
> exporting your schematic libs to a spread sheet, and globally 
> search and replace a footprint field, and then import back, 
> however, not sure, never tried it!
> 
> Now... where was I?  Ah yes... Once you have added the custom 
> footprint name to one of the schematic library footprint 
> fields, and updated the affected part in your schematic, you 
> will be able to select the added footprint from the drop-down 
> list in the schematic parts footprint field.  It works for me!
> 
> Lastly,  I'm afraid I cannot comment on using the file based 
> approach with protel99se, as I have never used it.  If you 
> have time, it might be an idea to try both, and see what 
> works best for you.  If you do, I'd be interested to hear 
> your findings.
> 
> If you have any other questions I'm happy to help if I can.
> 
> Cheers for now,
> Gareth.
>  
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John A. Ross [RSDTV]
> Sent: Wednesday, 22 June 2005 10:46 AM
> To: 'Protel EDA Discussion List'
> Subject: RE: [PEDA] Library organisation etc
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: 21 June 2005 09:45
> > To: Protel EDA Discussion List
> > Subject: RE: [PEDA] Library organisation etc
> > 
> > Hello Gareth,
> > 
> > That sounds like a possible route for us, as the software guys use 
> > SourceSafe, I just need to work out how to set it all up.
> > 
> > To start with, I think I need a .ddb with a schematic and 
> PCB lib in, 
> > nothing else? Then to add all our current components etc. 
> It does seem 
> > onerous to have a separate entry for every value of resistor, but I 
> > can see the time savings at later stages.
> > 
> > The only other question I have about your method is what 
> happens when 
> > you need to customise a footprint/part for a particular 
> design, do you 
> > add another entry to your central database?
> > 
> > >Such a VCS usually doesn't work well with the Access-based
> > ddb files,
> > >but it works quite well with the file system-based storage.
> > 
> > So does this mean my central ddb needs to be file 
> system-based or will 
> > all my designs also need to be file system-based? As they are all 
> > currently Access-based....
> 
> Norman
> 
> Do not use DDB storage with VSS.
> 
> See Altium KB article 
> 
> http://www.altium.com/forms/kb/kb_item.asp?ID=2018
> 
> For more explanation.
> 
> If you use DDB then the permissions sytem can be used to 
> allow read only access to company libs. 
> 
> This measn a request needs to be made to the librarian to add 
> a part to the company library and this can be just a request 
> and part number or the user can submit an actual part they 
> created and ask that it be validated, formatted and added to 
> the library.
> 
> Either way adds about just as many steps.
> 
> John
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > Sorry if I'm asking idiot questions, but I'm reasonably new 
> to 99SE, 
> > and totally new to the concept of Sourcesafe. It looks like 
> I've been 
> > landed with the task, so I have lots of manual input of components 
> > into a central library to take up my time soon!
> > 
> > Thanks to all who've replied!
> > 
> > Best Regards
> > 
> > Norman Webster
> > 
> > Development Engineer
> > Gas Detection Systems
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Draeger Safety UK Limited
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.draeger-safety.com
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Draeger Safety >> Pioneering Solutions
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > "Gareth De Mar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent by: 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 20/06/2005 03:11
> > Please respond to
> > Protel EDA Discussion List <[email protected]>
> > 
> > 
> > To
> > "Protel EDA Discussion List" <[email protected]> cc
> > 
> > Subject
> > RE: [PEDA] Library organisation etc
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Hello Norman,
> > 
> > We have 5 protel(99se sp6) users here and use a centralised library 
> > model.
> >  SourceSafe (a version control system) is used to provide 
> write access 
> > to the libraries (schematic or PCB), and only one user can 
> have write 
> > access at a time.  Once a library has been added to, it is "checked 
> > in" to the version control system, and a comment is made as to what 
> > has been added (or modified) to the library.
> > 
> > We also use an internal database system and give every single 
> > component a part number.  For instance, our part number 
> 6012-0401-00 
> > is a "RESISTOR SMD 330R 0805 0.125W 1%" which you may have 
> guessed is 
> > a 330 Ohm 0.125 watt resistor with 1% tolerance.  This database 
> > information including supplier and supplier part number are 
> put into 
> > the read-only fields of the schematic library part.  The 
> footprint is 
> > specified in the schematic library part as well - in this 
> instance it 
> > would be a "RC0805N" footprint.
> >  Putting in new resistors or caps usually just involves copying an 
> > existing one, and updating our and supplier part number and 
> > descriptions in the read only fields, and renaming the new 
> part - it 
> > doesn't take that long.  Adding unique semiconductor parts doesn't 
> > take much longer at all.
> > Whether you put part number information on individual  An 
> example of 
> > the above mentioned resistor in our resistor library:
> > Schematic part name: "330R SMD 0805 1% 6012-0401-00"
> > Component Text Field Default Designator: "R?"
> > Component Text Field Footprint1: "RC0805N"
> > Component Text Field Description: "RESISTOR SMD 330R 0805 0.125W 1%"
> > Library Text Field 1 (our part number): 6012-0401-00 Library Text 
> > Field 2 (supplier): Farnell Library Text Field 3 (supplier part 
> > number): 360-1663
> > 
> > 
> > We find this system to work quite well.  At first it may seem quite 
> > onerous as libraries are built up.  However, advantages are 
> assembly 
> > drawings and parts lists are generated very very easily.  Component 
> > supplier sourcing is done once.  We used to find ourselves 
> searching 
> > for parts and suppliers time and time again that someone 
> had already 
> > done all the leg work for.  Now we do the component 
> sourcing once, and 
> > just plug all that information into the libraries and it eliminates 
> > the duplicity of component hunting work we used to do.  Using the 
> > library find feature in the schematic editor, it is quite easy pick 
> > out parts from the library that someone else has put in.
> > 
> > Hope any of the above is relevant Norman.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Gareth.
> >  
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Friday, 17 June 2005 6:14 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [PEDA] Library organisation etc
> > 
> > 
> > With the recent discussion that included libraries, 
> updating them and 
> > old designs etc as part of it, I thought I'd ask a few questions 
> > separately to
> > 
> > that.
> > 
> > Here we usually have a library for each design database, this means 
> > each design is totally separate, there is no worry about updating 
> > components in
> > 
> > a new design affecting the old, as their libraries are totally 
> > separate.
> > BUT, this does mean a LOT of tedious copying across commonly used 
> > components between libraries when creating a new design.
> > 
> > So, me and my colleague (only two Protel users here) wondered about 
> > creating a central library for all our designs. This sounds better, 
> > however I can find flaws in this also, such as when you require a 
> > custom footprint due to a particular layout for only one 
> single design 
> > and also how to control the library for access, also us 
> both ending up 
> > adding components in duplicate!
> > 
> > I'm interested to find out how everyone else has their 
> libraries set 
> > up and how it all works, pro's and con's etc.
> > 
> > I also need to know how to set it up, will I need a separate ddb 
> > containing just libraries or just library files to import into each 
> > design? Either way I also need to maintain integrity of the 
> library in 
> > the
> > 
> > case a ddb goes corrupt aswell, as if all the components/footprints 
> > are only in the central library and it gets corrupted, I'm in for a 
> > lot of work!
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Best Regards
> > 
> > Norman Webster
> > 
> > Development Engineer
> > Gas Detection Systems
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > Draeger Safety UK Limited
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.draeger-safety.com
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > Draeger Safety >> Pioneering Solutions
> >  
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