List: JAS: As I see it, this is a refinement of Peirce's objective idealism--instead of a *substance *ontology in which "matter is effete mind, inveterate habits becoming physical laws" (CP 6.25, EP 1:293, 1891), it is a *process *ontology in which discrete things and their dyadic reactions are degenerate outcomes of continuous and triadic semiosis.
To elaborate on this a bit more, every triadic relation *involves *dyadic relations between different pairs of its three correlates; a *genuine *triadic relation is not reducible to those dyadic relations, while a *degenerate *triadic relation is so reducible. The three correlates of the *genuine *triadic relation of representing or (more generally) mediating are the sign (S), its *dynamical *object (Od), and its *final *interpretant (If); and it involves, but is not reducible to, the dyadic S-Od and S-If relations. That is why there are trichotomies for classifying signs according to them in Peirce's various taxonomies--icon/index/symbol for S-Od, and rheme/dicisign/argument (or seme/pheme/delome) for S-If. On the other hand, an individual *event *of semiosis happens when a dynamical object determines a sign *token *to determine a *dynamical *interpretant (Id)--an *actual *sign produces an *actual *effect. This is a *degenerate *triadic relation, reducible to those two dyadic relations. Peirce's later taxonomies include another trichotomy for classifying signs according to the S-Id relation--presented/urged/submitted (or suggestive/imperative/indicative), corresponding to the sign's "manner of appeal" (CP 8.338, SS 34-5, 1904 Oct 12; EP 2:490, 1908 Dec 25). My working hypothesis is that any dyadic reaction between discrete things can be conceived as an occurrence of such an event of semiosis. For example, when a moving billiard ball collides with a stationary billiard ball, that impact is a sign token, the previous momentum of the first ball is its dynamical object, and the subsequent momentum of the two balls is its dynamical interpretant. The sign token is an index because the S-Od relation is an existential connection, and an urged imperative because the S-Id relation is compulsive. It is also a dicisign or pheme because the S-If relation is isomorphic to that of a conditional proposition with antecedent and consequent--the collision is *governed *by a physical law. In Peirce's words ... CSP: Any dynamic action--say, the attraction by one particle of another--is in itself *dyadic*. ... However, the dyadic action is not the whole action; and the whole action is, in a way, triadic. ... That whatever action is brute, unintelligent, and unconcerned with the result of it is purely dyadic is either demonstrable or is too evident to be demonstrable. But in case that dyadic action is merely a member of a triadic action, then so far from its furnishing the least shade of presumption that all the action in the physical universe is dyadic, on the contrary, the entire and triadic action justifies a guess that there may be other and more marked examples in the universe of the triadic pattern. (CP 6.330-2, 1907) Regards, Jon On Fri, Jul 18, 2025 at 9:04 PM Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]> wrote: > Gary R., List: > > GR: It seems to me that *all *signs have an immediate interpretant (the > capacity to mean something), a sign *may* have a dynamical interpretent > (if, say, someone actually finds and reads the message in a bottle), and > that the final interpretant is its meaning "in the long run" by an > unlimited community over unlimited time (so only asymptotically > approachable). Another way to say this is that *a sign must have the > capacity to generate an interpretant to be a sign at all.* > > > Yes, this is very well said. My only mild reservation is that it again > seems to be looking at semiosis from the bottom-up (not top-down) > perspective, but it is mitigated by our agreement that doing so is merely "an > analytical contrivance in speculative grammar." > > GR: I have always found the last quote you offered, well, profound: "The > very entelechy of being lies in being representable. ... This appears > mystical and mysterious simply because we insist on remaining blind to what > is plain, that there can be no reality which has not the life of a symbol" > (EP 2:324, NEM 4:262, 1901). > > > I have found it increasingly profound myself in recent years, because it > expresses the fundamental *ontological* upshot of semiosic synechism. > Quine famously stated, "To be is to be the value of a bound variable"; but > I suggest instead that to be is to be the possible dynamical object of a > sign--whatever is, in any of the three Universes of Experience, is capable > of being represented, and therefore itself of the nature of a sign. As I > see it, this is a refinement of Peirce's objective idealism--instead of a > *substance > *ontology in which "matter is effete mind, inveterate habits becoming > physical laws" (CP 6.25, EP 1:293, 1891), it is a *process *ontology in > which discrete things and their dyadic reactions are degenerate outcomes of > continuous and triadic semiosis. > > I am still trying to work out the full implications in my own mind and > would welcome further discussion accordingly, which is why I started > another new thread. > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian > www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > >>
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at https://cspeirce.com and, just as well, at https://www.cspeirce.com . It'll take a while to repair / update all the links! ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . ► To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message NOT to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with UNSUBSCRIBE PEIRCE-L in the SUBJECT LINE of the message and nothing in the body. More at https://list.iu.edu/sympa/help/user-signoff.html . ► PEIRCE-L is owned by THE PEIRCE GROUP; moderated by Gary Richmond; and co-managed by him and Ben Udell.
