Edwina, List: ET: As i said repeatedly, the categories are not the same as the universes and the universes are therefore not a 'mature' or 'better' version of the categories.
Agreed; although again, I think that it is an open question whether Peirce was right to *change *his theoretical framework from phenomenological Categories to ontological Universes. ET: I consider that the Relations [and there are not just four] to be predicates ... As should have been clear from my earlier post, the four relations that I have in mind are S-Od, S-Id, S-If, and S-Od-If; i.e., the last four of the ten 1908 trichotomies. In that arrangement, Peirce seems to have moved away from treating S-Oi and S-Ii as distinct relations, presumably because Oi and Ii are "immediate"; i.e., internal to S. I am inclined to agree with you that relations are predicates, rather than subjects, and thus should be divided by Categories, rather than Universes. If this is correct, it obviously complicates--or perhaps renders impossible--Peirce's late and unrealized project of combining the six correlate trichotomies that are divided by Universe with the four relation trichotomies that are divided by Category in order to determine 66 sign classes. ET: ... SIX categorical Relations: 1-1, 2-2, 2-1; 3-3, 3-2, 3-1. I should probably know this by now, but would you mind explaining briefly where these relations occur within the three trichotomies and ten sign classes? Thanks, Jon On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 1:59 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: > Jon, list: Exactly. As i said repeatedly, the categories are not the same > as the universes and the universes are therefore not a 'mature' or 'better' > version of the categories. > > I don't see the relevance or superiority of the 'three universes' in > explaining the dynamics of semiosis. > > I disagree that the sign/representamen is a subject. It's an integral > component of the triadic Sign [O-R-I] and has no individual agential > capacity in itself, as it would if it were a subject. It's a process of > mediation and transformation and requires the subject-agenda of an Object > Relation. > > I consider that the Relations [and there are not 'just four] to be > predicates and morphological functional within the three categories or > rather, SIX categorical Relations: 1-1, 2-2, 2-1; 3-3, 3-2, 3-1. > > Edwina > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 19, 2016 2:28 PM > *Subject:* [PEIRCE-L] Re: Universes and Categories (was Peirce's > Cosmology) > > List: > > I was digging through my burgeoning collection of Peircean secondary > literature this morning and came across Gary Richmond's PowerPoint > presentation on "Trikonic" (http://www.iupui.edu/~arisbe/ > menu/library/aboutcsp/richmond/trikonicb.ppt). It helpfully summarizes > various characterizations of the three Categories/Universes. > > - Basic Categories: unit, correlate, medium. > - Universes of Experience: ideas, brute events, habits. > - Universal Categories: possibility, actuality, necessity. > - Existential Categories: feeling, action-reaction, thought. > - Logical Categories: vague, specific, general; or may be, actually > is, must be. > - Valencies: monad, dyad, triad. > > I also found two papers by Tony Jappy that, upon re-reading them, I found > to be relevant to this topic--"Speculative Rhetoric, Methodeutic and > Peirce’s Hexadic Sign-Systems" (2014) and especially "The Evolving > Theoretical Framework of Peirce's Classification Systems" (2016), both of > which are available online at https://univ-perp.academia.edu > /TonyJappy/Papers. His book, *Peirce’s Twenty-Eight Classes of Signs and > the Philosophy of Representation*, is coming out in December ( > http://www.bloomsbury.com/us/peirces-twenty-eight-classes-o > f-signs-and-the-philosophy-of-representation-9781474264839/); > unfortunately, it looks like the price will be quite steep ($128 list). > Jappy's hypothesis is that Peirce fundamentally changed his theoretical > framework for sign classification--from phenomenological Categories to > ontological Universes--during the time period between 1903 (three > trichotomies, 10 sign classes) and 1908 (six or ten trichotomies, 28 or 66 > sign classes). From the conclusion of the second paper ... > > TJ: The three categories, which, irrespective of their origin, had > accompanied all his work in the classification of signs from the earliest > period until approximately 1904, was superseded in 1908 by a broad > ontological vision embracing three universes, receptacles with respect to > which the sign and its correlates could be referred in the course of the > classification of a sign. The logical principles supporting this later > typological approach to signs, the fruit of an evolution in Peirce’s > conception of the object and of the rapid theoretical development that his > conception of sign-action experienced in those years between 1904 and 1906, > are, therefore, radically different from those of the earlier approach, and > it is doubtful that the two will ever be combined in a satisfactory manner > in the quest for the sixty-six classes that Peirce hoped to identify. > > > In the body of the same paper, Jappy twice quotes from "Prolegomena to an > Apology for Pragmaticism" to explain the difference between Universes and > Categories in this context. > > TJ: 1906 was the year, finally, in which Peirce explicitly introduced a > fundamental distinction between categories and universes ... making > explicit the universes to which the subjects mentioned in the extract > (RL463 26–28) quoted earlier belonged: > > CSP: Oh, I overhear what you are saying, O Reader: that a Universe and a > Category are not at all the same thing; a Universe being a receptacle or > class of Subjects, and a Category being a mode of Predication, or class of > Predicates. I never said they were the same thing; but whether you describe > the two correctly is a question for careful study. (CP 4.545, 1906) > > > TJ: In short, the passage suggests that Peirce is turning his back on the > logico-phenomenological framework within which he had established his > theory of signs since the mid-1860s, and that he is evolving towards an > ontological approach to classification, anticipating in this field, too, > the definitions advanced in the 23 December 1908 letter ... > > > TJ: ... The theoretical framework within which Peirce is now working is > ontological in the widest sense, involving the three universes defined > above, three universes which are entirely different from the > phenomenological categories of 1903-1904. A universe, says Peirce, is not > the same as a category: "Let us begin with the question of Universes. It is > rather a question of an advisable point of view than of the truth of a > doctrine. A logical universe is, no doubt, a collection of logical > subjects, but not necessarily of metaphysical Subjects, or ‘substances’; > for it may be composed of characters, of elementary facts, etc." (CP 4.546, > 1906). In this way, the correlates involved in semiosis figure ... as > subjects susceptible of belonging to one or other of these universes ... > the correlates thus described are not subdivided in any way by Firstness, > Secondness or Thirdness but are subjects or members of a given universe: > the dynamic object is one subject, the sign is another, etc. > > > Unfortunately, Jappy confines his analysis to the six semeiotic > correlates--Dynamic/Immediate Object, Sign, Immediate/Dynamic/Final > Interpretants--and does not address the four semeiotic relations, except to > note how Peirce described them in a 1904 letter to Lady Welby (CP > 8.327-341), when he was still employing Categories rather than Universes. > So I guess the questions that I posed earlier today must be preceded by > this one--are relations in general, and semeiotic relations in particular, > more properly treated as Subjects in Universes or as Predicates in > Categories? If the latter, then that may explain why Peirce never managed > to arrange all ten trichotomies into a definitive order of determination to > establish the 66 sign classes, and why Jappy is skeptical that this can > even be done. > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman > www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > >
----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
