Hi Gretchen,

No, it is not self-defrosting. In fact, the frost builds up on the walls a
bit so that I have put some foam there to protect the bagged items from it,
and I make sure to manually defrost and clean it whenever it is empty so
that the ice does not build up over time.

I do an immediate freeze from room temperature to -30ºC and then allow
objects to defrost at room temperature for at least a day before opening
the bag. There have been times when I was busy and left the bag sealed on
the lab bench for a good week or so, only to find fresh frass and even live
larvae when I finally got round to inspecting. I saw no holes in the bag to
suggest a new, external infestation. So as Rich said, I say this based on
personal experience, not controlled experiments.

I'm aware it doesn't seem to make sense and that the articles and theory
don't necessarily support it, but what can I say. This is what we see with
T. herbarius here, which is not a beetle that shows up on the literature as
far as I have found. As others have mentioned regarding odd beetles being
seemingly resistant as opposed to other beetles, I can only imagine this is
a similar case where T. herbarius happens to be particularly resilient. I
hope none of you ever get it where you work because it is a nightmare of a
beetle!

Thank you all for the input and information. It's really helpful!

Angelica

On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 14:18, Anderson, Gretchen <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Angelica,
>
> Is your freezer self-defrosting?  A self-defrosting freezer defrosts by
> raising the temperature, thus creating a cycle of warming and cooling –
> this can affect the kill rates.
>
>
>
> Research over the past 30 (+) years has demonstrated that a double freeze
> is not necessary to achieve the kill rate.  The more often you freeze the
> more likely the pests are to develop anti-freeze tendencies – actually you
> are mimicking natural freeze thaw cycles.  In general, we feel that a fast
> freeze (do not cool down the objects in a refrigerator) and a slow thaw is
> best.  The critical temperature is – 20 C, but you can go colder (See Tom
> Strang articles).  Once the object is in the freezer, leave it there for
> longer than you think necessary (if you can). The other key factor is to
> double bag items.  This will significantly reduce moisture loss.
>
>
>
> There was research some years ago out of Sweden about freezing as pest
> control.  Preliminary findings were that even if eggs hatched after being
> frozen – but the DNA seemed to be damaged, and Gretchen Anderson
>
> Conservator
>
> Carnegie Museum of Natural History.
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> *On Behalf
> Of *Angelica Isa-Adaniya
> *Sent:* Friday, May 3, 2019 2:40 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice?
>
>
>
> I have also had to re-freeze (not very dense) objects infested with
> Tricorynus herbarius beetles even though I keep things in the freezer at
> -30ºC for up to 3 weeks, and I always place objects in directly into the
> -30ºC temperature. 😐
>
>
>
> During the episode I told you about last year where the beetles were
> making their way into the freezer, they always woke up within about 10mins
> when I pulled them out for examination. Obviously, I don't know how long
> they had been in there before I pulled them out, so it could have been just
> a short time, but I don't take chances with these anymore.
>
>
>
> I guess some of these insects are just crazy resistant?
>
>
>
> - Angelica
>
>
>
> On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 11:33, Pollack, Richard J <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> Todd,
>
>
>
> Generally, the faster the temperature drops, the more likely the pests
> will succumb. Many cold-hearty arthropods will, indeed, modify the
> osmolality if their hemolymph, and there may be intracellular protective
> strategies that offer protection from ice crystal formation and
> resultant tissue damage. Slowly chilling some of these arthropods can
> induce the physiological changes. Hence, a rapid freeze is often most
> successful in causing the demise of the target pests.
>
>
>
> In the case I mentioned earlier, we believe that odd beetle eggs may be
> more freeze tolerant then the eggs of other pests. This belief is based on
> observations and experience (failure from a single freeze/thaw events),
> rather than carefully-crafted laboratory studies. Whereas the lab studies
> would be preferable, independent observations here suffice (for now) to
> convince us that a the second freeze/thaw cycle seems justified.
>
>
>
> I'd encourage others to provide data or their own observations, as those
> might serve to modify our recommendations.
>
>
>
> -Rich
>
>
>
> *Richard J. Pollack, PhD*
>
> *HARVARD UNIVERSITY*
> Environmental Health and Safety (EH&S)
> Senior Environmental Public Health Officer
> 46 Blackstone St.
> Cambridge, MA 02139
> *Office*: 617-495-2995  *Cell*: 617-447-0763
> www.ehs.harvard.edu
>
> [email protected]
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf
> of Todd Holmberg <[email protected]>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 3, 2019 12:01 PM
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* Re: [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice?
>
>
>
> For the group that believes a second freezing is necessary, is it because
> of how some insects can apparently create some sort of internal antifreeze
> like material that can allow them to come back to life after being frozen?
> The second freeze then kind of "catches them by surprise" in a way as
> they are unthawing thinking "winter is over".  (Is that the general theory?)
>
>
>
> I have been told that as long as the freezer temp is already at -30 when
> the object is placed inside, the rate that the object cools down is rapid
> enough to prevent insects from protecting themselves with the antifreeze.
>
>
>
> Hypothetically, if you are freezing wood that is pretty thick/dense, and
> wood boring beetles had burrowed deep into the object near the
> center, could the thickness of the wood give those insects near the
> center a little extra time to protect themselves?  Would this type of
> scenario benefit from a "double freeze"?
>
>
>
> -Todd
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 9:29 AM Voron, Joel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> At -30 for 72 hours once is sufficient to kill all life stages of pests.
> JTV
>
>
>
>
>
> *Joel Voron   Colonial Williamsburg Foundation*
>
>   Conservation Dept.
>
>      Integrated Pest Management
>
>       Office 757-220-7080
>
>         Cell 757-634-1175
>
>           E-Mail [email protected]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 3, 2019, at 8:52 AM, Adrian Doyle <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Dear all
>
> Double freezing shouldn’t be necessary so long as the core temperature of
> the object is at the correct temperature for the correct time
>
> Adie
>
>
>
> Mr Adrian (Adie) Doyle
>
> Integrated Pest Management Manager
>
> British Museum
>
> Property & Facilities Management
>
> Great Russell Street,
>
> London WC1B 3DG
>
>
>
> Tel: 020 7323 8207
>
> Mobile 07813 363292
>
> Also available by Radio
>
>
>
> Email: [email protected]
>
>
>
> *The British Museum*
>
> Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3DG
>
> britishmuseum.org
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.britishmuseum.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=GO7C3XN3WgFy2IP-bFBbnUs_CYntqj57Dprtl40-_KE&m=HYc5B0R7euCxciXPUyhUN5Yp7PDC_pFjrS93rADVcRk&s=cOs2Cw5IGmVLWGTh6JqzlMKPhJAPJgeKrViPED0kNGM&e=>
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>
> *From:* [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
> <[email protected]>] *On Behalf Of *Sharon Penton
> *Sent:* 03 May 2019 13:51
> *To:* [email protected]
> *Subject:* [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice?
>
>
>
> Good morning all,
>
>
>
> Some of my colleagues are adamant about freezing collection twice when
> dealing with pest. They freeze a first time then let everything get back to
> room temperature for a day or so then freeze again. Is this common
> practice? I've always thought if we can achieve a reliable -30 that should
> take care of all adults larvae and eggs?
>
> Would someone mind weighing in?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Sharon
>
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