Hi Sharon. Thanks for this. Ps will you be at Stockholm,? Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/ghei36>
________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Sharon Penton <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2019 6:01:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice? Hi Adrian, I have had to deal with the pesty termites since coming back to the states. Though I've only treated a few objects I had success with both freezing at -30 and with using a CO2 bubble for 21 days. It's been over a year now and nothing has re-emerged. One of these was the actually shipping crate an object came in (the object was metal and glass thankfully but the crate was left in storage!) so it had to go in the CO2 bubble due to its size. Hope that helps and thanks to everyone for providing your views on the the freeze once or twice question! Sharon Penton On Tue, May 7, 2019 at 9:54 AM Adrian Doyle <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear all For a standard to ensure the temperature is the correct level, we have a variety of boxes which have packaging material, a wooden blockn with a hole to take a temperature probe as a guide to the object temperature. Where possible, the probe is put in the object or at least in the centre of a wrapped pack. Another question Does anyone have specific information or recommendation on treatment times/temperatures for termites? We don’t have termites here in the UK but have had a request for advice for material coming into the UK and we have no experience here Are they killed at standard treatments and how effective is anoxia using C02. Do they need the ‘shock treatment’ ie suddenly plunged into a freezer Any advice would be appreciated Adie Doyle Mr Adrian (Adie) Doyle Integrated Pest Management Manager British Museum Property & Facilities Management Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3DG Tel: 020 7323 8207 Mobile 07813 363292 Also available by Radio Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> The British Museum Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3DG britishmuseum.org<http://www.britishmuseum.org/> The security classification for this message is OFFICIAL From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>] On Behalf Of Angelica Isa-Adaniya Sent: 03 May 2019 20:54 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice? Hi Gretchen, No, it is not self-defrosting. In fact, the frost builds up on the walls a bit so that I have put some foam there to protect the bagged items from it, and I make sure to manually defrost and clean it whenever it is empty so that the ice does not build up over time. I do an immediate freeze from room temperature to -30ºC and then allow objects to defrost at room temperature for at least a day before opening the bag. There have been times when I was busy and left the bag sealed on the lab bench for a good week or so, only to find fresh frass and even live larvae when I finally got round to inspecting. I saw no holes in the bag to suggest a new, external infestation. So as Rich said, I say this based on personal experience, not controlled experiments. I'm aware it doesn't seem to make sense and that the articles and theory don't necessarily support it, but what can I say. This is what we see with T. herbarius here, which is not a beetle that shows up on the literature as far as I have found. As others have mentioned regarding odd beetles being seemingly resistant as opposed to other beetles, I can only imagine this is a similar case where T. herbarius happens to be particularly resilient. I hope none of you ever get it where you work because it is a nightmare of a beetle! Thank you all for the input and information. It's really helpful! Angelica On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 14:18, Anderson, Gretchen <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Angelica, Is your freezer self-defrosting? A self-defrosting freezer defrosts by raising the temperature, thus creating a cycle of warming and cooling – this can affect the kill rates. Research over the past 30 (+) years has demonstrated that a double freeze is not necessary to achieve the kill rate. The more often you freeze the more likely the pests are to develop anti-freeze tendencies – actually you are mimicking natural freeze thaw cycles. In general, we feel that a fast freeze (do not cool down the objects in a refrigerator) and a slow thaw is best. The critical temperature is – 20 C, but you can go colder (See Tom Strang articles). Once the object is in the freezer, leave it there for longer than you think necessary (if you can). The other key factor is to double bag items. This will significantly reduce moisture loss. There was research some years ago out of Sweden about freezing as pest control. Preliminary findings were that even if eggs hatched after being frozen – but the DNA seemed to be damaged, and Gretchen Anderson Conservator Carnegie Museum of Natural History. From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Angelica Isa-Adaniya Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 2:40 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice? I have also had to re-freeze (not very dense) objects infested with Tricorynus herbarius beetles even though I keep things in the freezer at -30ºC for up to 3 weeks, and I always place objects in directly into the -30ºC temperature. 😐 During the episode I told you about last year where the beetles were making their way into the freezer, they always woke up within about 10mins when I pulled them out for examination. Obviously, I don't know how long they had been in there before I pulled them out, so it could have been just a short time, but I don't take chances with these anymore. I guess some of these insects are just crazy resistant? - Angelica On Fri, 3 May 2019 at 11:33, Pollack, Richard J <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Todd, Generally, the faster the temperature drops, the more likely the pests will succumb. Many cold-hearty arthropods will, indeed, modify the osmolality if their hemolymph, and there may be intracellular protective strategies that offer protection from ice crystal formation and resultant tissue damage. Slowly chilling some of these arthropods can induce the physiological changes. Hence, a rapid freeze is often most successful in causing the demise of the target pests. In the case I mentioned earlier, we believe that odd beetle eggs may be more freeze tolerant then the eggs of other pests. This belief is based on observations and experience (failure from a single freeze/thaw events), rather than carefully-crafted laboratory studies. Whereas the lab studies would be preferable, independent observations here suffice (for now) to convince us that a the second freeze/thaw cycle seems justified. I'd encourage others to provide data or their own observations, as those might serve to modify our recommendations. -Rich Richard J. Pollack, PhD HARVARD UNIVERSITY Environmental Health and Safety (EH&S) Senior Environmental Public Health Officer 46 Blackstone St. Cambridge, MA 02139 Office: 617-495-2995 Cell: 617-447-0763 www.ehs.harvard.edu<http://www.ehs.harvard.edu> [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> ________________________________ From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Todd Holmberg <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> Sent: Friday, May 3, 2019 12:01 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Re: [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice? For the group that believes a second freezing is necessary, is it because of how some insects can apparently create some sort of internal antifreeze like material that can allow them to come back to life after being frozen? The second freeze then kind of "catches them by surprise" in a way as they are unthawing thinking "winter is over". (Is that the general theory?) I have been told that as long as the freezer temp is already at -30 when the object is placed inside, the rate that the object cools down is rapid enough to prevent insects from protecting themselves with the antifreeze. Hypothetically, if you are freezing wood that is pretty thick/dense, and wood boring beetles had burrowed deep into the object near the center, could the thickness of the wood give those insects near the center a little extra time to protect themselves? Would this type of scenario benefit from a "double freeze"? -Todd On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 9:29 AM Voron, Joel <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: At -30 for 72 hours once is sufficient to kill all life stages of pests. JTV Joel Voron Colonial Williamsburg Foundation Conservation Dept. Integrated Pest Management Office 757-220-7080<tel:757-220-7080> Cell 757-634-1175<tel:757-634-1175> E-Mail [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> On May 3, 2019, at 8:52 AM, Adrian Doyle <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Dear all Double freezing shouldn’t be necessary so long as the core temperature of the object is at the correct temperature for the correct time Adie Mr Adrian (Adie) Doyle Integrated Pest Management Manager British Museum Property & Facilities Management Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3DG Tel: 020 7323 8207 Mobile 07813 363292 Also available by Radio Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> The British Museum Great Russell Street, London WC1B 3DG britishmuseum.org<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.britishmuseum.org_&d=DwMFaQ&c=WO-RGvefibhHBZq3fL85hQ&r=GO7C3XN3WgFy2IP-bFBbnUs_CYntqj57Dprtl40-_KE&m=HYc5B0R7euCxciXPUyhUN5Yp7PDC_pFjrS93rADVcRk&s=cOs2Cw5IGmVLWGTh6JqzlMKPhJAPJgeKrViPED0kNGM&e=> The security classification for this message is OFFICIAL From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Sharon Penton Sent: 03 May 2019 13:51 To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: [pestlist] Freeze once or freeze twice? Good morning all, Some of my colleagues are adamant about freezing collection twice when dealing with pest. They freeze a first time then let everything get back to room temperature for a day or so then freeze again. Is this common practice? I've always thought if we can achieve a reliable -30 that should take care of all adults larvae and eggs? Would someone mind weighing in? Thanks! Sharon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Museumpests" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>. 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