Guys
the animation of roassal2 are done really simply using viva.
Stef
On 14/9/14 19:07, Nicolai Hess wrote:
2014-09-14 18:20 GMT+02:00 kilon alios <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Plenty ? no
A few ? yes
Woden is certainly a project that I want it to be successful and
keep going forward but at the moment I can't say its usable when
each time I resize the window it corrupts the viewport.
No offense intended but lately the more I dive inside Pharo the
more I feel I waste my time, I love the IDE and the environment
and live coding but using the libraries is a never ending struggle
for me. I agree with Nicolai the landscape is not good, Pharo
really lacks mature libraries . Sure we like to bash Java but Java
libs are rock solid and very well documented. I bring Java as
example. Again I am not complaining at all, I knew when I came to
Pharo that I will have to face these limitations. I also don't
feel comfortable asking questions all the time as if I want others
to do my code but I did not have much of a choice. I just cant
deal with the lack of documentation any more.
I think Pharo as a general idea is great , you definitely have
taken the Squeak fork one big step further but you have a very
long road ahead of you to make Pharo a modern environment. Asking
for animating a window with good performance is one of the very
basics of a good GUI API. I know you have limited resources and
once again I am not complaining at all I just present my opinion.
Its clear that Pharo needs a lot more people to contribute and
bring the system forward at least to solve the basic problems.
This is definitly wrong :)
Especially the older squeak versions were ahead of its time with
(animated) interactive UI elements.
Java (Swing) does not come with an animation framework for the UI
(JavaFX, yes but that took its time).
There was a timing/animation framework used by Roman Guy for its
FilthyRich clients, that did really look great.
He created UIs that never looked like ordinary Java UIs. But I think
that was done by few people only.
So, doing this for pharo should be doable. (I do remember something
like that was done for
Morphic (maybe this one:
https://www.hpi.uni-potsdam.de/hirschfeld/trac/SqueakCommunityProjects/wiki/animations))
yoiu can do great thinks with Qt for C++ simple animation with the
good old qwidget and
the newer qml-framework. That's what I would call feature UIs (mostly
what is done nowadays on mobile devices and other
"platforms" have their own frameworks (java)android and Object-C (IPhone).
And I think we will see more "feature"-UI on the web with
HTML5/Canvas/Web-GL.
Do we need a good new UI framework for pharo? Yes.
Do we need many developers for working on this ? No, I think a
handfull (2-4) people would be enough.
What pharo really needs are:
Many more developers *using* pharo as a platform.
nicolai
Thank you all people who helped me. But I don't think it worths to
make my project in Pharo, too many problems. I feel privileged to
have helped you with my contributions , I wish the Pharo the best.
I could return back to Python but I think its time for me to bite
the bullet and learn C/C++, since graphics is an area that deeply
interest me (more as an artist less as a coder), so I don't have
much of choice. Maybe I can brings some of my code back to Pharo
with NB wrappers , I definitely will keep a close eye on Pharo.
In a few months I will also present to the Pharo community a
secret last contribution ;)
On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 6:26 PM, [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Do you know anything better for futuristic UIs at the moment?
I guess that we aren't talking about commercial dev here. And
if we would rely on everything being documented in Pharo,
errr, we wouldn't go too far.
That being said, there are plenty of examples in the Woden code.
Phil
Le 14 sept. 2014 16:28, "Nicolai Hess" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> a écrit :
Why should he use it, now?
I mean, is there a stable API? Or a roadmap ?
Sometimes it is a bit dangerous to trust on "bleeding
edge" pharo frameworks.
I did some work based on Roassal3D just to found out there
won't be any further development.
The same happens with Roassal and GraphET.
The same can happen with Woden too :)
2014-09-14 14:13 GMT+02:00 [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
Why not use Woden?
Phil
Le 14 sept. 2014 12:51, "kilon alios"
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
a écrit :
yeah I am afraid transparency is very important to me
On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 1:34 PM, Nicolai Hess
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
2014-09-14 11:32 GMT+02:00 stepharo
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>:
I remember that there was an animated gif
support.
Now I do not remember exactly.
At least in squeak there is an
AnimatedImageMorph, that can load and display
animated gifs.
That works and is quite fast even for multiple
instances. But of course no (alpha-)transparency
for roassal2 have a look at the viva
classes: this is the animation frameworks
that igor designed.
Stef
On 14/9/14 10:22, kilon alios wrote:
so I tried to animate in Roassal having
two different images display with a delay
for few millisecond but it only displays
the second image with this code
form1 :=Form
fromFileNamed:'/Users/kilon/Pictures/pharo.png'.
form2 :=Form
fromFileNamed:'/Users/kilon/Pictures/box.png'.
v := RTView new.
c := v canvas.
s := TRBitmapShape new.
s form: form1.
c addShape: s.
v open.
(1 to: 100) do: [ :index|
s form: form1.
s signalUpdate .
"(Delay forMilliseconds: 1000 ) wait."
s form: form2.
s signalUpdate .
(Delay forMilliseconds: 1000) wait.].
I looked into RTAnimation but dont know
how to use it for this example. Any help
? Does Roassal 2 support such animations ?
if I do s form: and then s signalUpdate
for each form separately it works fine
but inside the loops does not seem to
work , I tried bigger delays with no effect.
On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 10:57 AM,
stepharo <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Ronie when you ready I can help
writting a chapter for the nex book.
Stef
On 13/9/14 21:42, Ronie Salgado wrote:
Hello,
On 13/9/14 20:11, Enrico Schwass
wrote:
Hi
another option could be the
verse protocol. There was a
plugin for Maya and Blender to
do realtime rendering. Dont
know if there is some automatic
Swig-like wrapper for smalltalk
but FFI might work.
There is Wig like wrapper for
Pharo done by ronie salgado.
I have an adapted version of Swig
for Pharo NativeBoost here:
https://github.com/ronsaldo/swig
Currently I am using it to generate
my Bullet bindings (available here:
https://github.com/ronsaldo/bullet-pharo)
that can be used as an example of
using Swig.
I still have to improve more my Swig
generator, by writing documentation
and fixing some bugs.
Greetings,
Ronie
2014-09-13 16:11 GMT-03:00 stepharo
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
On 13/9/14 20:11, Enrico Schwass
wrote:
Hi
another option could be the
verse protocol. There was a
plugin for Maya and Blender to
do realtime rendering. Dont
know if there is some automatic
Swig-like wrapper for smalltalk
but FFI might work.
There is Wig like wrapper for
Pharo done by ronie salgado.
Stef
http://youtu.be/c_D2YJSNj8I
Almost a decade ago I did some
ruby bindings by hand. It was
working out of the box
Bye
Enno
Am 13.09.2014 um 16:11 schrieb
kilon alios
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
" I am curious. You mean
rendering Bitmap from blender,
for later use in Pharo UI? "
yes exactly. Blender can
render in all popular graphics
files, most used are png.
Animation frames can be
rendered each frame in its own
file.
So basically its a lot like
the average games out there.
"I will suggest bare bone
Morphic mainly, then Athens
when you need vectorial drawing."
ok
"For iStoa I decided to go
purely Morphic, I have a lot
of bitmap. Bitmap source is
SVG, then converted to PNG,
overscaled for production use.
Then from iStoa, depending on
the application window extent,
the bitmap are downscaled
accordingly, I am pretty
satisfied by the result."
I fail to understand how your
bitmap source is SVG for me
bitmap is a raster graphic
format svg is procedural
graphic format. Two opposite
things.
"Sure. The downpoint, you will
depend on one additional layer."
dependency is not an issue.
Afterall the graphic files
themselves will be far bigger
download even more so if the
GUI becomes very large.
"Nice. What will be the
expected outcomes of such API,
I am not sure to understand
and I am curious."
Well Blender besides creating
3d objects (which can be used
as 2d objects too) it can also
create 3d unrendable objects.
That means that objects
produce no graphics and have
the role of placeholders or
helpers, for example when you
want an emitter of light or
emitter of a physical power
like gravity or wind. Those
are called dummy objects and I
could use them to give
characteristics to the
graphics , for example I could
use a dummy to define the are
of influence of a mouse click
, or what type of event the
bitmap will respond to. That
means you wont have to import
the graphics manually to pharo
and create a separate morph
for each bitmap and then set
the events but rather press a
button in blender and then
Ephestos will import then
bitmaps to pharo , set the
events and create the morphs
automagically.
So basically you will be using
Blender as a GUI designer.
"Use fuel to store the state
of your application objects."
ah nice so fuel is a good
candidate.
I will also take a look at Dr
Geo and Phratch , both apps
have custom GUIs and use only
Morphic (Dr Geo using Athens
for the geometry primitives) .
