Tx
Le 17/1/15 01:11, horrido a écrit :
I'm moving all discussions related to the Smalltalk Renaissance Program to
the *Pharo Smalltalk Users* forum where I think it more properly belongs.
My original reasoning for choosing the *Pharo Smalltalk Developers* forum
was because I wanted to reach out to /the developer community who are a
vital part of the campaign/. But I suppose this forum should be reserved
strictly for Pharo-specific development issues.
The Pharo Smalltalk Users forum sounds more general in nature. That's where
we should be talking about Smalltalk and the PR campaign.
Marcus Denker-4 wrote
I think we *really* need a smalltalk-talk mailing list…
On 16 Jan 2015, at 05:44, kilon alios <
kilon.alios@
> wrote:
"I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is more
ambitious than the Smalltalk one"
I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is the
official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development team
agree on ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them discussed
here or anywhere on the internet.
I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that diffirent. It
offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but I would not call
my experience coding with pharo radically different compared to python
coding. Smalltalk used to be the Purple Cow no doubt when it first came
out , so many new concepts and ideas that were far apart from anything
remotely similar. But nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has been embraced in
several fronts , languages and IDEs are moving closer and closer.
It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most
popular languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases. Its
a really long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths.
I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk inspired"
its an insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by spending
hours making code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by forking code ,
your at best "Smalltalk based" and that makes you Smalltalk. Ruby can
call itself "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot. This shows to me a very
flawed mentality inside the heads of those Pharoers that believe this,
its shows me fear , its shows me embarrassment, it shows me weakness.
I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern Smalltalk
implementation as a project that lives true to the Smalltalk philosophy
and moves forward. Instead here we are calling Smalltalk "less ambitious"
, why ? Innovativing more than any other language have done so , is not
ambitious enough for you ?
I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would
prefer it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever
makes you happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of others,
especially when you base your success on their success. And yes I will
dare say it , Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in many fronts , far
more than Pharo currently is.
PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other people
mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme has been
miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how popular they
will become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language with continuously
expanding communities . I was merely wanted to point out how hype does
not help and there was tons of hype when Java allowed for the creation of
those languages. Jython for example is one of the oldest Java languages
(2001), and there was tons of hype when the project started that Jython
could become at worst an equal to Cpython on terms of popularity and even
more popular than Java at best. Sun even funded the development of
Jython back in 2008.
I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that has
been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a
competitive product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one we
live now. I do believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but even Pharo
never makes it to the top 20 most popular languages even in 30 years I
wont lose my sleep over it. I love Pharo for what it is, and not what it
may become.
--
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