Hi,

Thanks. Interesting. I do not yet see it yet, but there is something intriguing 
about it. It would be interesting to play with this in more details.

Cheers,
Tudor



> On Jun 8, 2016, at 12:24 PM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 2:01 PM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 2:04 AM, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 5:39 AM, Tudor Girba <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Hi Sven,
>>>> 
>>>> If I understand correctly, Stef talks about the case of building tests in 
>>>> the debugger. There he tries an expression and then wants to capture the 
>>>> result of the expression as an assertion in the code so he wants to paste 
>>>> the result directly. It is a different scenario than the one of capturing 
>>>> results that we store as comments for further reference.
>>>> 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Doru
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:50 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> The #printString of most objects is not valid Pharo syntax, it makes 
>>>>> sense to put those into comments, so that the overall syntax of the 
>>>>> workspace/playground is maintained and syntax highlighting can operate 
>>>>> normally.
>>> 
>>> This might be too much a corner case, but I wonder...
>>> If the domain object provided a sufficiently distinguishing
>>> printString, then a shortcut that appended the CTRL-P result....
>>>   printString = 'aDomainObject(''identifer’')
>> 
>> I cannot quite picture what you mean. Could you elaborate. It sounds 
>> intriguing?
> 
> Simple example (perhaps poor because its integers) is...
> 3+4
> select it, <ctrl-p> <ctrl-enter>
> ==>
> 3 +4 printString = '7'.
> 
> more involved... actually nothing like a concrete example to flesh out
> ideas.  The generated string should include "printString equals:"
> rather than "printString =" , or even "equalsPrintString"
> 
>    Object subclass: #Person
>        instanceVariableNames: 'name age'
>        classVariableNames: ''
>        package: 'AAAAA'
> 
>    Person>>named: aString age:  anInteger
>        name := aString.
>        age := anInteger
> 
>    Person>>printOn: aStream
>        super printOn: aStream.
>        aStream
>        nextPut: $( ;
>        nextPutAll: name;
>        nextPut: $).
> 
> PersonTest>>setUp
>    people := {
>       Person new named: 'John' age: 5).
>       Person new named: 'Peter' age: 7) }
> 
> PersonTest>>testAge
>    self assert: (people detect: [ :p | p age = 5 ])
> <ctrl-p><ctrl-enter> ==>  equalsPrintString: 'a Person(John)'.
> 
> Maybe using the printString is a bit fragile. If it changes you need
> to edit all the tests. Although you could be able to just use
> <ctrl-p><ctrl-enter> again and visually check the new and old results.
> 
> Maybe some other magic could happen like look up the returned value in
> instance variables and insert a code reference
> <ctrl-p><ctrl-enter> ==>  equals: (People at: 1)
> 
> cheers -ben
> 
>> 
>>> to the selected text might provide an interesting workflow for
>>> developing tests in the debugger.
>>> Maybe it could be CTRL-P + CTRL-T (for test) ?
>> 
>> I proposed Cmd+p Cmd+v (from paste).
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Doru
>> 
>> 
>>> A video demo of such might provide a good example of programming in an
>>> immersive environment.  What other environment could do this?
>>> cheers -ben
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> A result printed as a comment is also easy to select (by double-clicking 
>>>>> next to the $" on the inside).
>>>>> 
>>>>> All this makes sense for literal programming (assuming that is what you 
>>>>> are after).
>>>>> 
>>>>> What is the use case for not doing it like that ? Why do you want the 
>>>>> comments gone ?
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 07 Jun 2016, at 13:03, Ben Coman <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 7, 2016 at 2:09 PM, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Le 5/6/16 à 23:00, Tudor Girba a écrit :
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi Stef,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The quotes appear only when you add the result in the playground.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No need to explain I'm not idiot and I know it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> The typical use case for this is to keep track of several results.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No need to explain I'm not idiot and I know it.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In this situation you do not want to modify the code to not affect the
>>>>>>>> highlighting and this is why it gets in a comment.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is fun because I never ever needed it. But this is probably what
>>>>>>> everybody else is doing that since this is the default.
>>>>>>> I just write simple code and tests. Indeed I'm not that smart.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> But your tools only embedd your scenario and let the other users forced 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> adapt.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Well you do not want but I do.
>>>>>>> I spent my evening removing quotes while writing tests.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What I hate with the GTTools is that you want to teach me how I should 
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>> Sorry but good tools do not do that.
>>>>>>> Good tools empower the users and not constraint them.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I work a lot faster when I do not have to remove the wonderful comments 
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> when I have to copy and paste.
>>>>>>> This commenting is breaking the flow of efficient people. May be GT 
>>>>>>> team do
>>>>>>> not work write tests in the
>>>>>>> debugger but I do most of the time and I'm forced by the environment to
>>>>>>> remove quotes all over the places.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> If you want to copy the content without quotes, you can do:
>>>>>>>> Cmd+p -> popup
>>>>>>>> Cmd+c -> selects the current line and copies the text
>>>>>>>> Esc
>>>>>>>> Cmd+v
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Sorry but I do not want.
>>>>>>> I just want to print and modify directly.
>>>>>>> 7 keystrokes vs 2
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Perhaps we can add another keybinding like Shift+Enter for adding the 
>>>>>>>> text
>>>>>>>> without quotes.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I just had a play with this, and another option might be <ctrl-enter>,
>>>>>> since the <ctrl> key is still selection from doing <ctrl-P> so there
>>>>>> is not much difference in hand movements between <enter> and
>>>>>> <ctrl-enter>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> cheers -ben
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> And why not the inverse.
>>>>>>> By default printing is printing and if you want to do something else 
>>>>>>> then
>>>>>>> you have a special binding.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Now I'm upset with this general attitude (Oh I will teach how you can 
>>>>>>> be a
>>>>>>> nice user) that I will turn them off
>>>>>>> or go and hack my own settings. Still I'm amazingly sad about this 
>>>>>>> state of
>>>>>>> affair.
>>>>>>> All these story about GT is hurting me because of this attitude: we are 
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> smart and we thought a lot and we will teach you
>>>>>>> how you should work... and at the end I the end-user has to adapt.
>>>>>>> Look at the Spotter discussions: you looked for the graal and I was just
>>>>>>> telling to you that I cannot find
>>>>>>> simple information such as class refs!
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So what saddens me the most is that
>>>>>>> -  you pretend to have end-user trying your tools but I have impression
>>>>>>> that they are not real power users
>>>>>>> or this is yourself and it means that you are never exposed to other
>>>>>>> people.
>>>>>>> I can still not use Spotter because the way I put my hand on my
>>>>>>> keyboard. So should change
>>>>>>>     - 1 my hands
>>>>>>>     - 2 my brain
>>>>>>>     - 3 my keyboard
>>>>>>>     - 4 do not use the tools?
>>>>>>> - funnily enough if I would not have complain aggressively then it looks
>>>>>>> like we would have the same than before.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Your flow is not mine and I go faster my way but your tools force me to 
>>>>>>> get
>>>>>>> slow.
>>>>>>> I do not have the time to produce a video but I would even if it would 
>>>>>>> give
>>>>>>> a bad press to Pharo.
>>>>>>> I will do a presentation in the rmod team. Because people do not watch
>>>>>>> themselves why acting.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Good tools empower the users not constraint them.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> GTTools feel often like an overengineer guitar that would have hampered
>>>>>>> Jimmy Hendrix to do crazy solos.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>> Doru
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 5, 2016, at 10:20 PM, stepharo <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hi
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I would like to know if there is a setting to remove the "" when 
>>>>>>>>> printing
>>>>>>>>> the result of an expression.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I know that playground has been thought to help me, but today I 
>>>>>>>>> watched
>>>>>>>>> myself removing the comments
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> code so often that I would like to get a setting because such 
>>>>>>>>> wrapping of
>>>>>>>>> results is really boring for me.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'm spending my time removing them and I start to wonder why they are 
>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> useful.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I would help me to write fast tests for example in the debugger.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>>>>>> www.feenk.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "What we can governs what we wish."
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> www.tudorgirba.com
>>>> www.feenk.com
>>>> 
>>>> "It's not what we do that matters most, it's how we do it."
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> --
>> www.tudorgirba.com
>> www.feenk.com
>> 
>> "If you interrupt the barber while he is cutting your hair,
>> you will end up with a messy haircut."

--
www.tudorgirba.com
www.feenk.com

"Reasonable is what we are accustomed with."


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