Thanks david Our hope is to make a better Smalltalk with/for all you :) This is a responsibility but a so cool goal.
Stef On Jul 9, 2009, at 8:01 PM, David Mitchell wrote: > I would insert the phrase "for you" several times into your post. That > is, is Python a better language (for me) at this time. Or, was Python > an easier language (for me) to learn than Smalltalk. > > If you come late enough to the party (and the party is large enough), > you can Google for all your answers. Smalltalk's popularity spiked in > the early 90s (until Java popped its bubble). You couldn't Google for > Smalltalk answers then largely due to the lack of Google ;-). > > I learned Smalltalk just after its peak (or maybe at its peak, hard to > say). I'd seen Java first and even learned how to build simple apps. > By then, I already knew C, C++, and Pascal. I cut my teeth on > Commodores (3584 BASIC BYTES FREE!), Apples, and Ataris. > > Smalltalk was easy for me, but there were many resources available > to me: > First, (and probably most important) a paying job writing Smalltalk. > 60+ hours a week of paid practice doesn't hurt. > Access to commercial Smalltalks (VisualAge and VisualWorks) and an > employer to pay the $2K-$5K developer license fees. > Time working with 50+ Smalltalkers all working on the same project. > An active and growing Smalltalk Users Group in my city. > An active subscription to the Smalltalk Report magazine (with great > articles by guys like Kent Beck). > Access to all of the back issues of the Smalltalk Report. > Many printed Smalltalk manuals from IBM and ParcPlace. > Dozens of IBM Redbooks showing how to do just about anything you would > need in the enterprise. > > I think Andy Bower had it right - "Smalltalk is dangerous. It is a > drug. My advice to you would be don't try it; it could ruin your > life." It certainly ruined me for most other languages. I've learned > Java, Ruby, Python, and Perl in that order since Smalltalk. Java, > Ruby, and Perl were for work and Python was a curiosity. I don't use > any of them when I have a choice because I'm so much more productive > (and happy) in Smalltalk. > > I love Pharo because it is working to make a better Smalltalk. I'm > lucky today because I get to choose my tools at work which means I get > to use Pharo! > > > On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Robert > Peters<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hello everyone, >> >> 1. Whichever fork is most professional will win. I believe this >> was one of >> the goals of the Pharo project, so I'd have to say Pharo will >> eventually >> lead. >> >> 2. Smalltalk in all its forms will fail unless it can grab developer >> interest from outside the current community. Pharo may be better >> than >> Squeak, but if everyone moves from Squeak to Pharo, your audience >> is still >> too small to be significant. >> >> I'm a web-application developer (Django, GAE) and self-taught >> Python coder. >> I learned Python because it was easy, and there is a wealth of >> information >> available on the internet. If I have any problem in Python, I >> simply type >> 'python issue' into Google and within a few clicks I'm usually >> looking at >> the answer. When I tried to learn Smalltalk, it was intensely >> frustrating. >> There were no on-line resources, no tutorials, no explanations. >> >> I think the real question is, "Is Smalltalk a better language than >> Python?" >> By better, I mean, "Can I get done more coding tasks faster, in a >> more >> sustainable way?" >> >> Right now, the answer to this question is a resounding 'No'. But >> that >> answer might change with a slick Smalltalk package, and an >> abundance of >> developer resources. As it is, Smalltalk is a language for >> eccentrics. But >> it doesn't need to be that way. >> >> All of this to say that I really like the beautiful simplicity of >> Smalltalk's main paradigm - Message Passing. >> >> It's simple. It's elegant. But learning it is a stone bitch, and >> once >> you've learned it, it has only limited value (compared, for >> example, to the >> wealth of things one can do in Python). I wish this would change. >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://n2.nabble.com/Squeak-Forks-Popularity---Trends-Estimate-tp3211130p3232572.html >> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
