On Jul 9, 2009, at 10:43 PM, Robert Peters wrote: > > Dear David and Stephane, > > Thank you for your replies. David, you make excellent points. I > did not > know about VW being free and will try it out. And you're certainly > right > that however much Smalltalk web resources are smaller than Python's, > it is > certainly a much better environment for learning Smalltalk now than > it was > 20 years ago.
VW is not free but you can use a non commercial version > > And Stephane, I say 'your' and not 'our' because if my wife found > out I got > involved in yet another cause on the web, she'd kill me! And also, > I can't > code in Smalltalk, so I'm very much a spectator. so find a lilttle project and do ti been a spectator is not the way to get involved and learn > > But I did not intend for my original post to be negative. I > absolutely > believe Pharo is 100% on the right track, and a critical component > in a > potential Smalltalk resurgence. > > So I'll keep waiting, and when 1.0 comes out, I'll give it a try > again. OK > > Kind regards, > Robert > > > David Mitchell-6 wrote: >> >> Sorry, I think my intent got lost in my joy for nostalgia. >> >> There was a big Smalltalk party but it ended. Then it was quiet for a >> while (but the party was underground). >> >> Now, the party is getting started again. >> >> You may just be a little early coming to the second party. >> >> Things you have today that I didn't have in 1994: >> You can download (Pharo, GNU Smalltalk, Squeak and use it however you >> like). >> There are two free, open source, and maintained cross dialect web >> frameworks: Seaside and AidaWeb (we wrote our own and it paled in >> comparison) >> You can use Gemstone for free for small sites. >> You can use Magma as a free OODB. >> You can use VW for non-commercial (including to learn Smalltalk). >> The Squeak list exists. (All I had was comp.lang.smalltalk). >> Many good Smalltalk blogs. >> Almost all of the old Smalltalk books are available free as PDF. >> Many of the new Smalltalk books are available free and from Lulu. >> Most of the classics can still be bought used on Amazon. >> James Roberson's smalltalk podcasts. >> James Robertson's nearly daily Smalltalk screencasts. >> Randal Schwartz promoting Smalltalk >> squeak irc channel >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 9, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Robert >> Peters<[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> Yes, you're quite right, David. But my point is that my particular >>> situation >>> is representative of everyone who is not currently in the Smalltalk >>> community. I posted because I want the Smalltalk community to >>> grow, but >>> it's peak has passed. There are no SUGs, there is no Smalltalk >>> magazine, >>> there are no web resources. And the Smalltalk community must grow >>> if it >>> is >>> to be taken seriously. >>> >>> I cannot go back in time and learn it in the 'peak'. I must learn >>> it >>> now, >>> with the resources that are available now. These resources are >>> lacking. >>> >>> If a person was equally proficient in Smalltalk and Python, which >>> would >>> they >>> produce better code faster in? >>> >>> I suspect the answer may be Smalltalk, because of its one, >>> beautiful, >>> paradigm. But I, and millions like me, will never know. >>> >>> I'm hoping Pharo will be the first steps in changing that. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> David Mitchell-6 wrote: >>>> >>>> I would insert the phrase "for you" several times into your post. >>>> That >>>> is, is Python a better language (for me) at this time. Or, was >>>> Python >>>> an easier language (for me) to learn than Smalltalk. >>>> >>>> If you come late enough to the party (and the party is large >>>> enough), >>>> you can Google for all your answers. Smalltalk's popularity >>>> spiked in >>>> the early 90s (until Java popped its bubble). You couldn't Google >>>> for >>>> Smalltalk answers then largely due to the lack of Google ;-). >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> View this message in context: >>> http://n2.nabble.com/Squeak-Forks-Popularity---Trends-Estimate-tp3211130p3233384.html >>> Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pharo-project mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> >> > > -- > View this message in context: > http://n2.nabble.com/Squeak-Forks-Popularity---Trends-Estimate-tp3211130p3233978.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
