2012/11/25 dimitris chloupis <[email protected]>:
> 240 commits later we had a morphic
> interface for blender written in python and ported to bgl so it could run
> from inside the blender window.

I'm trying to understand... was it an alternative interface for
Blender, or an interface toolkit just happening to sit on top of
Blender? (or both?)

> Suprisingly we did not have so much problem
> with out own bugs but bgl proven too slow , buggy and unreliable so I had to
> abandon because I could only solve that problem with hacking blender source
> which is written in C and is almost not commented at all. Lets say here I am
> no big fan of C language of Blender source.

I begin to understand what you meant with "only thing it worries me is
the type of technical blocks / obstacles I may come across".

> Here you can find if you are interested the final blender python code --->
> https://github.com/kilon/EphestosOld

What really would interest me is your personal opinion on Smalltalk as
somebody coming from a Python background. That is, once you have more
experience with it (Smalltalk). I don't know much Python, but
considered it more than once because of something I didn't find in
other mainstream languages that I would miss from Smalltalk: named
parameters. Of course in Smalltalk you don't have that, since the
method signatures give you that for free ;-)

> From there on I was just searching for a home for Ephestos. I has quite
> reluctant to join pharo because of the lack of developers and because I am
> not that familiar with smalltalk as much I am with python. To be frank I am
> not that motivated to join a language that is has a very small community
> because of bug fixes and library support.

I understand you completely and it is good to read this loud and
clear. For every person like you that communicates this in a clear way
there must be hundreds that consider Smalltalk and then discard it for
the same (or other) reasons; the input never reaching the community.

I would be tempted to tell you that being such a small community also
has its advantages ;-) but I don't want to trivialize the issue.

Smalltalk's community *is* very small, and the library support...
well... could (and hopefully will) be better. In some areas, let's be
honest, we are years behind other platforms/environments/languages.
But why does a Smalltalk community still exists at all, then? Because
yet in many other areas, Smalltalk is still *ahead* of anything else
out there also for years if not for decades.

Yes, I think this is a vital issue, and kind of a chicken-egg problem
that needs to be solved (I know, it *is* being solved).

In fact, I think I will write another mail asking this "small" (?)
community what they think about it.

> I actually even looked into common
> lisp and emacs very recently as well since I really like lisp as a language
> and I prefer from smalltalk.

Conceptually I find Lisp also very interesting. But anytime I evaluate
going the Lisp route I find myself planning to reach first some
Lisp-based-Smalltalk syntax & semantics and then I say: why waste my
time if there *is* already Smalltalk, waiting to be used? :-)

At the end, I think the right approach to DSL
(domain-specific-languages) nirvana will be the idea presented by the
Helvetia project, incidentally also Smalltalk-based:

http://scg.unibe.ch/research/helvetia

> But it has become obvious to me that what I am trying to do for Ephestos is
> synonymous to what smalltalk is trying to do, to offer a live visual
> environment that makes code , fun , flexible and efficient.

Cool :-)

> So I decided to
> take the deep dive into pharo. Smalltalk may not be super popular as python

Not for a long shot, unfortunately. We as the Smalltalk community
should be very sincere and evaluate, with a cool head, why this is so.

> but porting all smalltalk stuff or even just little to python is just insane
> amount of work so I think I made the sensible choice to port my project to
> Pharo because it was already based on pharo libraries anyway.

I don't get it... which part will you port from Python to Smalltalk,
and which part you don't need/want to port?

> Saying that I am still interested in offering some Blender support for
> Ephestos and thus making pharo able to quickly communicate with blender

And Blender would... render 3d? (whilst the interface would be on the
Pharo side?)

> probably via a socket bridge.

The idea of (socket) "brides" to other languages / runtimes always
made sense to me. At least short-term to break the library/devs cycle.
I don't know if this idea was evaluated by the community. Recently
there was an announcement of a bridge to a XUL (Mozilla) -based
frontend, with Smalltalk back-end, using Seaside's continuations. So
it should be easier as ever.

> I got all these crazy ideas but I am willing
> to take them a step at a time , so that is why I talked about "decades".

I very much liked what Stef wrote yesterday, it got me thinking: start
small and work steadily...

Good to see that you have such long-term plans! :-)

Best regards,

Sebastian

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