Hi All, First of all, I want to apologize to everyone for the content of this email. My hope is that it won't seemtoo critical and instead will read how I intended.
Here's a list of my positions: 1. This thread is depressing 2. People on every side need to take a step back and chill 3. PSR-8 is great, I'm -1 on removing it and +1 on voting it in officially 4. We as representatives should have the right to call a vote for anything what-so-ever as long as there is no bylaw prohibiting it regardless of discussion period. A lot of people look to us for answers and depend on the things we produce, so our discussions are certainly very serious, but I think we should all take a second to examine who we are and what we are doing and perhaps realize: 1. Sometimes we're all wrong and sometimes we are all a little overzealous 2. A joke is a joke, we can have a joke it's not a big deal 3. We don't need the secretaries to hold our hands. They do not need to remind anyone of anything, I'd rather they focus on better things if that's an issue. (Super happy that they do remind us though) 4. We are all just people trying to do the best we can, lets all jump on the "benefit of the doubt" train instead of the demoralizing back and forth we continually have. To all parties in all of these dramatic encounters, it takes two to tango. If someone is drumming up drama, reply in a reasonable way affording some benefit of the doubt and set the issue to rest. No need to get upset, no need for hostility, we're all people fighting our own battles trying to make this organization into the best organization it can be. I wouldn't say I know everyone here but I feel like over the past couple years I've come to know a lot of you personally, and I know that each and every one of you is better than throwing in anecdotal attacks and bringing up drama from the past to argue something as simple as "Should we have this april fools joke still". Thanks for reading Love you all, Korvin On Monday, September 12, 2016 at 6:35:59 AM UTC-7, Jordi Boggiano wrote: > > As a person that has spent the last couple weeks looking at this thread > and others, feeling I should call Paul's BS many times, and not doing it > because frankly I don't have the energy and rather spend it on other > stuff, I can indeed confirm all this shit is driving people away. > > Paul seems bent on destruction at this point, since as he put it "treat > me bad, I'll treat you worse" [1]. Yes people were fed up with you Paul > and tried to send you a sign. If all you take out of that is escalate it > to the next level then we might as well all pack our bags and go home, > save ourselves some trouble. Or maybe you pack yours and leave the rest > of us to do work here, and come back when you feel you can contribute > without pooping all over the playground. > > Regardless, thanks Larry. *hug* > > Best, > Jordi > > P.S: I don't have Larry's patience, and I am sure this is more > inflammatory than necessary, but frankly I don't feel like I have to put > on silky gloves to respond to such behavior. > > [1] https://twitter.com/pmjones/status/762097547334684672 > > On 12/09/2016 14:56, Larry Garfield wrote: > > Fellow FIG list members, we have been trolled. > > > > PSR-8 is a non-issue, non-entity, with no activity. It was an April > > Fools joke cum running gag, in which Paul was an active participant as > > Sponsor. Why did Paul bring it up right now? Of all times? And with an > > obviously baiting subject line? It's not at all possible that it has > > something to with the Editor of PSR-8 being me, and Paul and I being the > > strongest voices on each side on FIG 3? Even though Paul was until a > > few days ago the Sponsor for PSR-8, meaning he was "in on the joke" from > > the beginning? > > > > No, that couldn't possibly be the reason. Not in the least. > > > > That there is no way to withdraw/abandon a PSR right now isn't even a > > question. A simple look at the bylaws will tell you that, and Paul was > > at the meeting at ZendCon last year where we discussed that. We even > > wrote up a proposed abandonment process in the same writeup that > > included the initial secretaries proposal. You can find that here, > > towards the end: > > > > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/php-fig/pxezV88Uk1I/eW3GvtPRCgAJ > > > > That never turned into a bylaw, so no, there's no current PSR > > abandonment process. The Secretaries apparently looked at each other at > > some point and went "yep, there isn't." This hardly requires a public > > vote; it's acknowledging what was already public knowledge, written up > > on the list, and discussed at the ZendCon meeting. > > > > FIG 3 included an abandonment process based on that discussion. (I > > believe the time-frames are a bit different, but it's the same spirit.) > > While working on FIG 3, Michael and I noticed that the odds of PSR-8 > > being able to field a 5 person working group and show activity every few > > months were small, so it would almost certainly get abandoned > > automatically. We basically said ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. > > > > That doesn't mean we should have a vote for something the bylaws don't > > currently allow for anyway. And no, as Editor of PSR-8 I do not support > > such a vote. > > > > Adam, the "tone" to which you refer is Paul's repeated paranoid > > delusions that the Secretaries have formed some sort of cabal to steal > > power from voting reps such as himself. It's been a refrain of his > > since May and the Pixie vote (where the secretaries did goof and > > corrected themselves and apologized within hours), and as far as this > > voting representative sees it constitutes continual ongoing harassment. > > The secretaries, and Michael in particular, can barely breathe without > > Paul demanding that they somehow bow to his account. And now they're > > not "Secretaries" (their proper title), but "secretarial assistants", a > > verbal demotion that serves no purpose other than to further undermine > them. > > > > "This silly discussion of whether the secretaries over-stepped again", > > as you describe it, exists precisely because the person who is so fond > > of declaring there's too much "drama", and that a serious bylaws > > proposal to adapt FIG to modern reality constitutes "drama", himself has > > made a habit of causing "drama" every time the secretaries do, well, > > anything other than merge a PR. No, the secretaries didn't "over-step" > > here, because they didn't do anything at all! This is a 100% > > manufactured non-issue that itself serves absolutely no purpose > > whatsoever except to cause more discord, strife, and heartburn from an > > open hypocrite. > > > > If anything, Michael and Samantha have been saintly in their restraint > > in the face of this harassment campaign. > > > > This entire thread, and the would-be "pre-vote" thread, is pure noise > > serving no purpose whatsoever other than to troll the rest of the list, > > create strife, and goad Paul's opponents into saying something he can > > pounce on. Again. > > > > If you want to know why people are getting fed up with FIG of late, this > > thread is exhibit A. > > > > --Larry Garfield > > > > On 09/11/2016 09:05 AM, Adam Culp wrote: > >> Samantha, > >> > >> I think you and Michael are applying a certain "tone", and taking > >> offense, with Paul's question of whether the group was aware and > >> involved in what could have been a decision making discussion, or if > >> it was only the secretaries. This is a voting members right to ask. > >> Paul, and others, have made it clear that secretary actions should be > >> monitored, based on past incidences. Not only should secretaries > >> properly moderate this list, as their duty, but members should also > >> moderate the secretaries to ensure they do not overstep again. > >> > >> While I do feel the PSR-8 discussion should have been posted to a > >> broader audience I do not feel it was necessarily handled > >> inappropriately this time, because no actual decisions were imposed. > >> So let's move on, unless someone feels it should continue for some > reason. > >> > >> All, > >> > >> This silly discussion of whether the secretaries over-stepped again > >> really shouldn't be happening, in this case, because PSR-8 shouldn't > >> exist. The topic of PSR-8 has come up many times over the past couple > >> years. It was cute, but we need to move on. We should be able to shrug > >> it off as the joke it was. Let's stop applying the rules of "serious" > >> PSRs to such a thing and get rid of it. > >> > >> Regards, > >> Adam > >> > >> > >> On Saturday, September 10, 2016 at 9:42:52 PM UTC-4, Samantha Quiñones > >> wrote: > >> > >> Paul, > >> > >> I already talked about this in the other thread. Continually > >> antagonizing Michael is not an appropriate way of addressing > >> whatever issues you may have with the way he conducts himself as a > >> secretary of this organization. Likewise, attempting to press your > >> definition of our role as secretaries by repeating it ad nauseum > >> is not an appropriate way of addressing your disagreement with how > >> it has been described and executed. You are a voting member of > >> this organization and you are free to bring these matters up for a > >> discussion and vote as you see fit. What you cannot do is abuse > >> this mailing list, and your colleagues in the organization, to > >> drive a personal agenda. It shouldn't be necessary for the > >> secretaries to moderate your messages to this group. > >> > >> Please stop. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Samantha > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >> an email to php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > >> <mailto:php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>. > >> To post to this group, send email to php...@googlegroups.com > <javascript:> > >> <mailto:php...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/5f6f0dfe-9b0a-4b44-b71d-51ca3c07a88d%40googlegroups.com > > >> < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/5f6f0dfe-9b0a-4b44-b71d-51ca3c07a88d%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:> > > <mailto:php-fig+u...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>. > > To post to this group, send email to php...@googlegroups.com > <javascript:> > > <mailto:php...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>>. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/68ea8819-8e73-7b8c-913e-87a797420154%40garfieldtech.com > > > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/68ea8819-8e73-7b8c-913e-87a797420154%40garfieldtech.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > Jordi Boggiano > @seldaek - http://seld.be > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "PHP Framework Interoperability Group" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to php-fig+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to php-fig@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/php-fig/0ec5726e-df4d-4a05-a720-c82496e2ef32%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
