Manuel Lemos wrote: > Hello, > > on 02/17/2010 12:34 AM Nathan Rixham said the following: >>>> in all honesty the following are the sticking point that make it hard >>>> for me to decide if I was right in my earlier response: >>>> >>>> 1: that the "sign up to get the class" is even part of the equation >>> This is another misunderstanding. The site does not make anybody >>> register to download any package. That is an option determined by each >>> author. >>> >>> That is explained in the site FAQ and other places, but some people >>> still misunderstand it and assume that it is an evil imposition of the site. >>> >>> http://www.phpclasses.org/faq/#register-to-download >>> >>> It may not be obvious, but the truth is that this detail is one of the >>> reasons for the success of the site. >> again, hence why I said "part of the equation"; it is can be switched on >> and off by the author on a per file basis, but to me it would make more >> sense to leave the decision of signing up to the user, and not try and >> influence it in anyway - personally I would remove the optional part of >> it and simply do what other sites do; present the user with two choices >> "register and download" or "download without registering". >> >> A similar topic of opt-in vs opt-out on emails is often discussed; >> however I believe it has to be "opt-in" now, within the UK certainly. > > That is because you are only seeing it from the view point of the user. > > People need to have motivation to do what they do. Authors only submit > their packages to PHPClasses site if they gain something from it. What > the site provides them is attention.
I know - I'm an author ;) [or was, well still am, can't delete profile so left some files up their for anybody who may find them useful] - and as for attention, the last class I put on phpclasses was getting 5 downloads a week, and 1k+ a week on sourceforge. > As I explained in another reply, if an author leaves the login > requirement enabled, the site can keep track of the users that > downloaded the packages. That can be used for sending alerts when a new > version of the package is released, or a new blog about the package is > posted. > > The site can also build download charts that lets authors see their > progress in user interest and motivate them to continue to submit more > packages or update existing ones. > > In the end everybody wins. and it can do all this with the user being in control and choosing to give that info.. as implemented on millions of other sites.. >>>> 3: that users can't delete an account >>> That is explained in the FAQ. The site does not allow users to recreate >>> accounts with the same address or access name. If you really delete an >>> account, you have no way to prevent that an user recreates an account >>> with the same access name and e-mail address. That would be a hole for >>> malicious users to cheat on several types of rankings and contests that >>> the site organizes. >>> >>> http://www.phpclasses.org/faq/#delete-account >>> >>> Other than that, most sites out there never really delete accounts. Some >>> claim they do, but then you try to create an account with the same >>> credentials and the site says the account still exists. I would rather >>> tell users the truth. >> I've read it quite a few times, and as a developer I know very well that >> you could delete the account and prevent the address from being re-used >> very easily with little code; the ethics of making somebody remove each >> tiny bot of info and file from your site in order to manually remove >> themselves is a bit.. debatable to me - again, personally I'd do it the >> same way as everybody else, giving the user the option of whether to >> make the username and email address available to be re-registered. I >> strongly feel all these kind of choices should be in the hands of the >> user, and not the company. > > The site sorts of give that option to the users by letting them know > that it does not remove accounts. Users that disagree, should just not > register. > > It is like you go to some country and if for some reason you leave, > probably upset with something, you will not be able to erase the records > of your presence in that country. > > This site is not really interested in your personal information. The > reason this site does not remove accounts is because it is used to > prevent several types of fraud. I am just not going to enter in much > detail here in public on what happens to not give ideas to cheaters that > may be reading this. I hope you understand. as stated, you could just remove the public pages of said user and keep the username + email taken; quite easily >>>> 4: the amount of adverts >>> I wish it was viable to remove all the ads. That would mean that the >>> site could succeed on revenue from other services. Advertising was plan >>> B. I still hope someday I can take all ads down. Meanwhile, premium >>> subscribers have all ads removed from the site. In some cases, they see >>> other valuable information in the place of the ads. >> the amount; not suggesting you remove adverts all together, it's the >> currency of the web! > > Unfortunately I cannot reduce the current amount of ads. The site > already eliminated most types of pop-under ads because they are too > annoying for the users. That caused a significant ad revenue reduction. > > Maybe if the number of premium subscriptions raises to a significant > level I can reduce or even eliminated all ads. While that does not > happen, I am afraid the current number of ads has to kept. that's a business decision then I guess. >>> There are much more things upcoming. Most of the things are based on >>> suggestions from users because that is the way to make this a more >>> satisfactory project for everybody. >>> >>> But I have to manage this as any real business to keep it viable. >>> >>> Most people that use the site do it to some how make money for >>> themselves, being that using code or solutions found on the site to >>> develop paid projects for clients, find developers to work on their >>> projects, etc.. >>> >>> The site charges for some services, but I believe it charges reasonable >>> amounts for the benefits it provides and the paying users will make much >>> more using such benefits. >>> >> I do hope it all goes well for you and the community, and that the right >> choices are made - when in doublt just look at the big guys like >> sourceforge, github etc and see how they do it - the better your service >> and easier it is for users, the more chance you get of full donated >> hosting and investments - I guess a good measure will be when you have >> several of the big PHP projects / libraries on there. > > Well, those sites are not exactly for the same purpose. They are for > hosting the actual project development. The PHPClasses site is more for > distribution. Each type of site needs to find a business model that > adequates to the type of activity that goes one in the site. > if you made the site more accessible; didn't lock in users, took off the registration, cut down the ads (not remove), improved the templates, promoted the developers by giving their details free and showing off their fine work; hell why not even integrate with these fine project hosting sites (that'll cut the bandwidth..) then maybe - just maybe traffic would rise; people would enjoy the site more; use it more and in turn the money maker which is the job ad's would get more exposure and boost revenue for you. you've got everything there to make a great community which would in turn fund you and be a fine business - there are other ways to do things. I know it's been 8 years but you can always change / tweak. ultimately though, it is a business the focus has to be on making sure the money comes in & that has to be priority #1 (?) -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php