Daevid Vincent wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: tedd [mailto:tedd.sperl...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2010 8:19 AM
To: Daevid Vincent; php-general@lists.php.net
Subject: RE: [PHP] In need of CVS/SVN checkout script for Production servers [solved]

At 1:10 PM -0700 5/4/10, Daevid Vincent wrote:
Well, here is the one I'm using. I ended up just writing one (again!)

http://www.daevid.com/content/examples/snippets.php :: "Production
Deployment Script"

Advanced features??

I know you don't mean it, but you certainly know how to piss people off. You are not going to like what I have to say, but please accept the following as constructive criticism with no personal intent meant.

The site fails W3C CSS validation with 96 errors.

The site fails W3C HTML validation with 92 errors and 9 warnings.

I have not run into a site like this since before the turn of this century where we had browser wars. The problem isn't just with my browser, but many more as you can see here:


The page (not addressing the entire site) is riddled with embedded javascript and embedded styling both of which are considered bad from.

I haven't even addressed accessibility, graceful degradation, or separation of content from presentation from behavior all of which are the goals of "best practices" sites -- and all of which this site fails miserably.

My advice, which I realize that you didn't ask for, is if you want to provide something of substance, then do so for all and not just the privileged elite who think they are the leading edge with this type of "gimmick" nonsense. This site is a step backward into the old browser wars.

Of course, I could tell you what I really think, but I don't want to be too abrasive. :-)



*sigh* once again you people focus on something SOOOO off topic compared to
the meat of the thread -- which is a production repository checkout script.

As for my site.

[*] I wrote it like 4 years ago or more when there were TWO browsers worth
mentioning: IE and FF.
[*] I used a 3rd party JS library from www.ceiton.com -- who are pretty
much dormant.
[*] The cieton code is not only compressed and impossible to debug, but
often written in German!
[*] I've looked at it a few times over the years to try and remove the
limitation, because I also agree that most modern browsers should be able to handle
the JS at this point.
[*] I really don't care about the fringe browsers of Chrome, Opera,
Konquerer, Blackberry, whatever (for my PERSONAL HOME PAGE)
[*] http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
[*] http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=0 [*] I'm sorry your using a browser that falls under the top 25%. In fact ALL the browsers besides IE and FF don't even add up to 16% of the ENTIRE market. Give me a break man. I've got more important things to do. [*] If you don't have Firefox, well then let me tell you where to go download it for free: http://www.mozilla.com They make it for all major OS's in case you didn't know.
[*] Honestly, I also dislike Apple. I think it's stupid for them to make a
browser. I think they make crappy products. I HATE my iPod. I am a Linux
guy (or was until I realized my time was too valuable to keep wasting on
Linux as a Desktop), and WANTED to LOVE OSX. I sold the damn notebook after
a month of owning it. OSX blows. It's too dumbed down IMHO (as is Windows7,
but that's another topic). In light of recent events where they fired a guy
for showing that even more stupid iPad (great, a big iPhone that can't even
call) to Wozniak and then going after Gizmodo, I have even more distain for
them. So I really have no care to support them in any way shape or form. If
the site works for Safari, fine. If not, oh well, change your USER_AGENT
string or get Firefox/IE.

As for CSS, inline styles, separation of logic, and all that other stuff
you ASSUME I don't use -- you are very wrong. I just happen to use a lot of
PHP to dynamically create various parts. In some cases I inline styles
where they are used one time or used in a PHP function. I freely admit that
there is some archaic code there too. Code that I'm not about to go back
and re-factor at this stage. I know much more now than I did then. I would
certainly do things differently, and the next time I get a wild-hair up my
ass and a few days of that elusive commodity known as "free time" to code
up a new design I will.  Again, this is my personal site that's only
purpose is to show some pictures and other random shit.

And with all due respect Tedd -- as I know you're an icon here and I've
learned many things from you myself. If I had to choose between my
daevid.com site and one of the three you (presumably) illustrate as beacons
of "the way to do it" (http://sperling.com  http://ancientstones.com
http://earthstones.com), then I would take my site any day of the week.
These three sites harkon back to the days of command line Linx/Links and
text based web pages in Mosaic using blue hyperlinks with purple visited
indicators, gray backgrounds and <blink> tags. Of course your sites degrade
nicely, they're ALL one step up from a page of text. The scream "elitist"
W3C/Linux user. Yuk.


Perhaps pastebin or similar would help in the future & allow all access to your handy snippets :)

Tedd's website(s), certainly the three you listed, are fantastic - each one consists of well formed html, presentation abstracted in to css, and are not dependant on libraries, certain user agent vendors, or certain browser capabilities, in order to be consumed. They are HTTP compliant, W3C standards compliant, accessible - and whilst the design may not be the taste of all (especially the web 2.0 crowd) - they do the job perfectly. Note that you can also view them in text browsers, archive them, turn off css if you don't like it.

Whilst Tedd didn't have to comment on your website publicly, it is a public website and this is a public forum, he wasn't rude, and everything he said was indeed true.

With regards 'The scream "elitist" W3C/Linux user.'
 - Your website is hosted on Server: Apache/2.2.9 (Ubuntu) - linux
- W3C is the web standards agency, setup by the people who invented the web, the standards are what make the web work. - HTML is from W3C (and TimBL himself), as is HTTP, as are the "hyperlinks" you mention.
 - so much more..

Short version, without W3C and Linux you wouldn't have a website, or a job - the least you could do is at least try to follow some of the recommendations / standards, these people do work tirelessly to help you, for free - you are supposed to be a web developer after all, how do you expect to do that if you haven't read the manual(s) and don't understand the technologies?

Your website is not just your personal homepage, it's your online presense and the message you are sending out to associates, friends and clients alike (both current and potential).

I won't say anything specific about your website, other than lol (you know it's really bad) - just take it on the chin, if possible heed the good (honest) advice you've been given, and get back on with what you're doing - we all make mistakes and go down incorrect tech paths from time to time :)



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