--On Tuesday, August 28, 2001 11:42 PM -0300 Manuel Lemos <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> These guys resort to these marketing tricks to promote Python as hell,
> and the PHP people just sits and waits doing almost nothing in
> comparision to promote PHP as hard as they can even when they lives
> depend on the acceptance of PHP as a wide spread language!

dear mr lemos,

 your ongoing participation in this thread has opened my eyes to views i 
had not considered before and caused me to revisit mine. however, the above 
is representative of where i think you and i disagree.

[please note that my thoughts here are really in response to the overall 
impression i received from reading all of your posts in this thread and i 
only include the above quote for my convenience. even though i'll mostly 
mention where you and i disagree, it doesn't mean i disagree with all that 
you say. indeed, i find your enthusiasm contagious and offer encouragement 
to you in your effort]

 one assumption you seem to have is the ongoing viability of php (if not 
the very livelihood of we the developers using php) is somehow a function 
of the number of folks who know what php is. that somehow the more folks 
know about php, the better php gets. it also seems that you feel 'the PHP 
people' are not putting forth enough effort to further php's acceptance and 

 from my point of view as a developer using php, recognition of php in the 
corporate world is not as important as how good php is. i prefer to see 
efforts focused on developing the best darn HTML-embedded scripting 
language this side of the railroad tracks. whether or not php gets talked 
about on the evening news doesn't really matter. what matters is whether 
php helps me as a programmer. i don't care how many folks recognize the 
power of php. i care about the power of php. the number of folks using php 
is a function of whether or not 'the PHP people' can continue to produce 
such rockin' code over the next few years. not the other way around.

 i imagine you have a unique perspective on the effort it takes to promote 
php. but, i'm guessing that 'the PHP people' probably do as well. i myself 
am unduly grateful for the effort that they put forth, not only in 
producing the rockin'st language anyone could have hoped for when learning 
to program, but in promoting php as well. when i saw php was featured at 
the open source convention in san jose, i knew things were moving along 
just fine. that's the kind of promotion i want to see. i believe 'the PHP 
people' should be allowed to promote php in a manner they are comfortable 
with. after all, it's their itch.

 ya know, making the best HTML-embedded scripting language seems a pretty 
noble goal to me.

> Regards,
> Manuel Lemos

have a good one,

 -- mike cullerton

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