Hello Dear packagers, contributors and general public:

  I chose this e-mail to answer because I think it's the most comprehensive 
for the moment so I can remind of what topics to explain.

  As you know or you don't (since you are not forced to) I have devoted not 
much but a little time to Debian, one of my passions. This is like this 
because I, unfortunately, don't have much spare time. Like the rest of you I 
guess ;)

El Viernes, 6 de Junio de 2008, Sune Vuorela escribió:
> It seems like we are agreeing to disagree. What's the way to get on from
> here? Having the rest of the people in Uploaders speak up?
> Vote? Let the issue rest and ship current packages being worse than we
> shipped in etch?

  I think the most supporters/voluteers option is to be adopted.

> On Fri, 6 Jun 2008 14:52:10 +0200, Ana Guerrero <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On Fri, Jun 06, 2008 at 12:47:54AM +0200, Sune Vuorela wrote:
> >> On Thursday 05 June 2008, Ana Guerrero wrote:
> >
> > One only man 15-25h weekly is not enough for all the testing that needs
> to
> > be
> > done, all the answering/checking bug reports, check uploads, read mailing
> > list
> > related etc. (I have not seen here more people promising devote time to
> > this
> > goal)
> And you are the only one offered to work for kde3 desktop on the maillists.
> KDE3 needs more time than you can dedicate.

  Calm down guys... relax... breathe... take your time. Enjoy Debian! ;)

> And we still need to get opinion from the rest of the people doing the
> actual work. We so far only heard from people subscribed to the maillist,
> but not really spending time on kde packaging.

  I volunteer to work on KDE3. It's my main desktop for the moment, at both 
home and work, even I do some kde4 tests, I don't think I'll move to kde4 
till it gives me more confidence.

  I'm also sure that we can cheat... errr convince some more people to go on 
with the final steps for kde3 into lenny.

  I think KDE3 is the less work demanding option. I can review BTS, for 
example and if some guidelines are set I may also take some other 

> > Once kde 4.1 would be in unstable it is a fight against time and almost
> > all
> > week are hard to be in VAC if you want this in lenny, but the week 31 is
> > from
> > 28 July to 3 august, is *really* bad timing.. do you plan upload kde 4.1
> > to
> > unstable before leaving (release is 29th july) then do not be around for
> > fixing all the possible stuff you could have broken and not handling all
> > the
> > issues that prevent a quick migration to testing?
> I do plan to have other parts of the team to be around, but I so hope for
> them to speak up.

  AFAIK, there have been people who expressed that are not going to work 
towards KDE3 on Lenny, but haven't taken responsibility to introduce KDE4 .1 
on Lenny, except you.

> >> Kde4 shows new ways of thingking the desktop which I feel is really
> >> interesting and worth to be spreading out as soon as possible.
> >
> > And people should have the option of switch to KDE 4.1 if they want to,
> > you
> > want to force them.
> We need to force them one day. I think that one day has come.

  Provided the kDE 4.1 state and Debian's "stable" concept I think we should 
persuade those people who want to work with a "work in progress" desktop (in 
some areas) to use testing rather than stable. Where KDE4 can be available 
very soon after lenny release.

  Moreover, wasn't Debian about freedom? :P

> > Build dependencies won't be a big deal in the big picture, true.
> Exactly. So why mention them in the first place, unless you try to grasp
> every straw in a FUD'ish way to get it your way ?
> > And how your personal opinion about koffice1 sucking matters here?
> > (matters in
> > releasing with kde4.1 vs kde 3.5.9).
> How does koffice not being ready matter at all ?

  Why was it released on etch then? Koffice1 is the readiest office suite that 
K is able to offer, or are you considering Koffice2?. If you think it's not 
ready, then let's kill it from Lenny completely.

> > Again, from your personal user-case. I only said some apps that first
> came
> > to my
> > mind.  For example, I do miss in that list kbiff, i do use it. And every
> > user
> > you ask will miss any KDE 3 app there, sometimes because there is not
> real
> > equivalent in KDE 4, sometimes because it is unknown for them.
> You have plasmobiff instead. Yay for plasma.

  Even if there is a direct replacement for everything, which I doubt, their 
stability/readibilty is in question.

> >> > -Some arches do not like KDE 4
> >> > Let's keep this short: KDE 4 needs to be built in all the release
> >
> > archs,
> >
> >> > and it actually does not.
> >>
> >> It is only hppa. It should be possible to get someone to fix it.
> >> (and it isn't autobuild on arm* platforms, but I have pretty good faith
> >
> > in
> >
> >> that it builds there - and most possible build failures on arm* are
> >
> > related to
> >
> >> qreal vs double, so easy fixable)
> >
> > Still, something to needs be worked on. And you said some days ago by IRC
> > clearly it was not your problem, or something like that...
> Well - if porters doesn't care about Qt and KDE on their archs, I have a
> really hard time figuring out why I should care. But well. Debian hppa
> porters doesn't think they can support stable releases, but hppa get
> released anyway, so maybe we should just ship fully empty packages on hppa
> and be done with it?

  That's a little odd. Don't you think? I'd bet for the Pino position, 
reporting this back to KDE.

> > Sorry, but have you looked at the schedule? To fit on it it should been
> > _already_ uploaded since weeks ago. Release terms in debian still means
> > what
> > they are supposed to mean.
> Yes. I have looked in the schedule. We have  6 weeks from kde4.1 release to
> debian release. THat's great.
> /Sune

  Being Debian and KDE mostly voluntary powered projects, I don't think 6 
weeks is enough. Even more when kde4 is not on unstable yet. What can be 
resources devoted to KDE4 into Lenny for those 6 weeks? How much testing 
could be done? How much user base would be ready to test KDE on those weeks?

  Honestly I think, on how things like are now, KDE 3.5.9 in Lenny is the 
right decision. I'd also love to see KDE 4.1 into it, but that's not 
realistic. KDE4.1 hasn't been tested enough, it hasn't even released yet, and 
it features lots of new (ported) stuff.  It also lacks some functionallities, 
which people used to KDE3 will miss.

  BTW, I do think kde4 development platform has to be available on Lenny, of 

  It's a real pity Lenny hasn't been released on the first half of this year 
(according to KDE release schedule), but life's like this.

  Fortunately, once Lenny is released, KDE 4.1 will hopefully be ready on 
testing real soon.

  Thanks for your work and your reading.

     Raúl Sánchez Siles
----->Proud Debian user<-----
Linux registered user #416098

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